Cut and Thrust - where to start

[Jake_Norwood]

We've been doing a lot of Cut-and-thrust swordplay out here, mostly with buckler. I've read Silver and Much of DiGrassi, and only a smattering of Morrozzo.

My question is if I was to put together an actually curriculum/training regimen for C&T, where would I start? What manuals have the most comprehensive and "for beginners" approach?

Thanks.

Jake

[Guest]

Jake, sounds like you havea already studied good sources <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />
For me the best sources to start with are those with more pictures and basics explained in details, they prevent mistakes to some degree. And I like pictures a lot <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />
Carlo

[Stuart McDermid]

Hi Jake,

IMHO you should start by choosing an accurate weapon. Di Grassi and Marozzo would be compatible to a degree given that they use much the same weapon but Silver is totally off the track here. You cannot use the same weapon for both and expect your interpretation to be accurate. These weapons handle very differently. The English sword 16th Century one handed sword is a cutter whilst the Italian is more of a thruster.

IMHO you already have the best (accessible) source for Edgesword in Di Grassi. Interpreting Di Grassi is relatively easy. Silver is quite difficult.

Bear in mind that although Terry Brown makes use of Silver's principles (as all good swordsmen should <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />) the vast majority of his sword method is from later sources that look nothing like Silver's method.
Cheers,
Stu.

[Jake_Norwood]

Good points, Stu. I'm more of an edge man, however, and DiGrassi seems to significantly prefer the point.

Jake

[Guest]

I was discussing of Silver with an English swordsman, who seems to know him well, one interesting point that came out is that Silver's sword is quite long in comparison to other C&amp;T.
So if you plan to do Silver, maybe a schiavona is not the proper weapon, it would suffice to me but not to you because of your height.
Carlo

[Jake_Norwood]

Would a schiavona stop being one if modified for a slightly longer blade on account of my height?

Jake

[Guest]

Jake, I would not risk to ruin it <img src="/forum/images/icons/crazy.gif" alt="" /> . Why don't you just build up a longer waster and see if the new style-weapon combo fits you before you put your hands on a good weapon you like that little has to do with a British style and will serve you well for other styles? (And above all, I think that if continental swords were shorter, there might be a good reason for this, the schiavona having served with distinction for quite a while <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" /> , I for one do not really feel the need for a longer sword than those I use)
Carlo

[Jake_Norwood]

The real issue is that the folks who used schiavonas just weren't 6'2" and 207lbs. (about 185cm, 95 kilo). And who says I want to fight british? I think that Silver's principles will carry over to any weapon in certain doses, so it isn't worth tossing. I'm an amalgaman-fighter, not a specialist. The guys that study everyone nowadays...they seem to fight better. That's just my observation, though.

The schiavona is on the cut more side of C&amp;T. I like that. I love the grip (with the ricasso-fingering and the cage around the fist). I even like the way the pommel works (I've fought with one before...I really liked it). But I'm not permanantly hung up on it...

My main issue is just that I want to have a study of what I'm doing, so that I'm not making it all up. The principles of timing, distance, and footwork from longsword have made me a very capable fighter with it (note: "very capable" means that I'm better than most folks I know, and I did allright fighting JC. I'm not *even* pretending some kind of real proficiency).

Jake

[Stuart McDermid]

Hi Jake,

I find a blade of Silver's perfect length to do everything he says it does. My old sword was a little too short for me by Silver's measure and I wasn't much of an offensive threat. My new one is almost smack on and suddenly I am hitting people alot more often than I used to.

Silver is a great method for very tall people and some of the best fencers in my class (Mr Hand excepted) are 6 ft or over.

SO how long is the blade on this sword of yours. The correct Silver blade length for me is about 35 inches. Believe me when I say it makes all the difference.
Cheers,
Stu.

[Guest]

"The real issue is that the folks who used schiavonas just weren't 6'2" and 207lbs. (about 185cm, 95 kilo)." How do you know?
"And who says I want to fight british? I think that Silver's principles will carry over to any weapon in certain doses, so it isn't worth tossing." Anyone of us has his priority, I prefer to use a specific style in bouts now, I'm better at being accurate than I'm at bouting <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />. I'm not sure in the past many swordsmen were croos-stylists in the same weapon. My opinion is that it's more historical to use one specific style at the time, but that's only a preference. I mean that one does not apply Silver in making Hope or Capoferro, one can apply Silver in making more compatible styles.
Carlo