defense against striking to pflug und ochs

[Ryan Ricks]

so today hugh and i were working on ringeck's zwerchhau twitch cuts where you rapidly strike to the upper and lower openings. the first zwerch to the upper opening is easy enough to block with kron or something like that, but if the next one comes to your lower opening, it seems like one is pretty much dead.

so we decided the only way to go is to intercept the first zwerch with kron and then use an elbow push or some other means of grappling to prevent the next zwerch.

what does everyone think, how does everyone else deal with defending against the twichting zwerchs?

ryan

[Brian Hunt]

Paulus Hector Mair says you can stop his zwerch to your left side with your long edge and then do your own zwerch to the other side. In this manner you will get ahead of his second zwerch and retake the vor. You can throw your zwerch at either his upper or his lower openening on his left side.

I also like to krump a zwerch, then I can uncross my wrists to do a true edge strike down at his head, or use the barrier guard to stop his zwerch and do a false edge cut down at his head by once again uncrossing my wrists. These motions are for a zwerch to the left side, but can also be done on the right, but the wrists are uncrossed on the right side and then cross over one another as you strike.

just a couple of the ways I respond to a zwerch.

hope it helps.

Brian Hunt.
GFS

just my 2 cents worth.

Brian Hunt.

[JeffGentry]

Well i am no expert but have been reading Meyer alot lately and he teach's the twitch to the four opening's, The only way i realy see to defend is to be more skilled at the twitch than your opponent, or void out to the long fight.

if i block your strike and i twitch to your head before you get your's off i win, if you read Meyer he talk's about the four opening's quit a bit and how if you don't know the four opening's your strike's will be defeated.

Every gaurd or strike flow's through the opening's i think being able to quickly see what gaurd they are in and know what opening's are now unprotected is the skill that will help in this area so you know where to go with a strike why strike to a gaurd when i can go to a low opening then a high opening.

I am now trying to learn the Meyer twitch drill. Jake is the duty expert on Meyer and i have seen him do twitch's and went how did you do that, I can attest that his are amazing.

You can even do a twitch as you leave the middle and go to the long of the fight so as to enable yourself to keep the opponent out and take a second to gather your self for a renewed effort but i advise taking a look at Meyer.

Also don't forget the advice of the Master's to strike when they strike and thrust when they thrust, some of the Meisterhau will work to but you have to know what gaurd they are coming from and what they can do and what they will leave open.

[Shane Smith]

I'm with Jeff on this...I'm voiding out to the approach and taking your hands on the way out (If I can pull it off). <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Jake_Norwood]

Ringeck also notes that the counter to a zwerch is a zwerch up underneath it. This works against underhauwen also.

Jake

[Randall Pleasant]

Brian Hunt wrote:
Paulus Hector Mair says you can stop his zwerch to your left side with your long edge and then do your own zwerch to the other side. In this manner you will get ahead of his second zwerch and retake the vor. You can throw your zwerch at either his upper or his lower openening on his left side.

This same counter is described in Ringech. When you throw an Oberhau from Vom Tag and notice that he is going to counter with a Zwerch (placing his thumb on his blade can be one give away) you redirect your cut to your left so that your long edge impacts his upper flat, thus displacing his cut. When you throw your Zwerch to counter his follow-up Zwerch you throw it with the hilt up and the point down as if you are cutting to a lower opening. However, you must keep the your hilt above your head in order to protect your head. Note that the counter works not so much by getting ahead of his blow, but rather by going under his Zwerch. Because your adversary's first Zwerch was displaced downward his second Zwerch will most likely be aimed at an upper opening rather than at a lower opening Since you throw your counter Zwerch with the hilt up and the point down his second Zwerch impacts on the flat of your blade as your counter Zwerch hits him.

[Devin Wilson]

When you're in kron, Ryan, I think you're have the right ideaa about countering, but also try this: when you feel him releasing his pressure on your sword as he begins the twich, shove your blade down and against his arms and towards his face and neck. This tangles up his arms and if you might even be able to keep shoving him down to the ground.

Foot work recommendation: Resonding with a second twich: That's great, too. After trying a technique very similar to it here in Provo where we met the attack with hengen. We thought this was better foot work for it: stepping forward and to the left the meet the first zwerch, and then stepping forward and to the left again when you perform your zwerch.

Devin Wilson

[Ryan Ricks]

so are zwerchs effective with single hand swords? mine are back in atlanta, so i can't try it out atm

ryan

[Casper Bradak]

Yes, and they are still effective as master cuts.