Pallas Armata Questions

[Mike Cartier]

I have a few items needing some clarification from Book 1 Pallas Armata,(containing how a right handed man is to play against a right handed man at single rapier).
Perhaps another working on the same manual could help me out.

1: Chapter 3 Concerning the gaurds
Prime - clear enough except for the hanging prime, which seems awkward unless done very shallow, (reguler prime gaurd with a slight dip in the point)

Secunde - is the hanging secunde a high hanging point or a low hanging point? (how high is the hilt held)
It seems if high is straight out and middle is with a bowed arm, thereby putting the point in the middle area, then the hanging secunde should have a point orientation either low or high but still have a hanging point. Holding the hilt high and letting the point hang down to breast height seems the most comfortable.

Tertz- On these 3 guards (high, hanging and low) is the point fixed on the opponents face during all 3 of the Tertz or is it sometimes also held straight out with each of the gaurds, so the point orientation changes with each Tertz gaurd


2:
under chapter IV, examples of how to use the guards, it mentions that "the Secunde is used over the right arm in a long thrust and in a passade, then likewise under the arm in a passade without."
Going back thru the manual I cannot find a reference for that word , there is passere and parere but not passade?
Is that just another version of the word passere?


Also it seems to me that there are names for the gaurds (secunde, prime etc) that also seem to apply to the thrusts (Secunde thrust or quarte thrust etc)
So the gaurds are also thrust positions (you may stand in Secunde and attack in quarte or stand in secunde and attack in secunde)

Also when they talk of the technique being used within or without, is that in refeence to the opponents outside (without) and the opponents inside (within). For a right handed man this would be
within = everything to the left of your right arm extended in a gaurd , without being everything to the right of your right arm extended.?

Thanks for any help on the clarifications <img src="/forum/images/icons/confused.gif" alt="" />

[Mike Cartier]

great link thanx Sean, I will print it out today..

Actually that brings up another question <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

It gives a first part and a second part of book 1, the first being
"Containing how a Right-handed man is to play against a Right-handed man at single Rapier"
and the second part being, "shewing how a Right-handed man must play with a Right-handed man at single Sword"

problem is when i read theough that first book it seems like a direct continuation of the first part, in fact even the pictures depict the very same sword types (Rapiers)
Am i missing something here?

[Mike Cartier]

from messing around with the hanging gaurds, i think if you recover from the gaurds into a low tertz, orienting the point to the face you can recover almost as fast and accuratley no matter where your hanging gaurd is.
I find the low hanging gaurds, (prime, quarte and secunde) too awkward when done too low. In keeping with the idea that the head is the best target i think the answer to the hanging gaurd questions might be to bring the hilt down to center keeping the point at the face, this means that when you have a hanging gaurd and you try to quickly counter, rather than going straight for the face and exposing your blade to a bind to you weak segmnent as you transition, you can bring it back on line instantly into the low tertz and from there thrust or cut any place. This seems to negate the negative aspects of the hanging gaurds, namely that you are exposing your blade to a stingere or cavere and forcing yourself on to the defensive.

As far as the hanging secunde goes, i find that when i keep it high on the hanging gaurd it feels much more threatening.
But as you say the true test is to be seen during sparring.

[Mike Cartier]

I think you are right about the guards, some are clearly not to be held there for too long and are more transitional.

[Mike Cartier]

The more I practice this stuff the more I agree with your interpretation of the hanging secunde, i think i am in error in keeping the hilt too high as I have done.

What do you think about the lunge? i am of the opinion that too drastically deep of a lung is unwise. being able to respond is crittical in any fighting art, you never want to be in a position you cannot fully protect and use footwork with to respond to any counters.
It works great in modern sport fencing becasue you cannot grab thier hand, step lively to the side or whip them with the end of the thing or kick them in the bollocks.
I feel almost that my footwwork is better served in smaller lunges that chase in repetition rather than one giant lunge, that way i can totally control my balance better.