Dueling

[Guest]

Scholars,

I've started this post on Dueling. It's my current research and I find it very intersting how gentlemen would settle arguement or insults this way. Unlike today where people drive by with guns and kill each other in a cowardly way. If you have input or would like to add section from manuals on Dueling please join in. Please do not discuss modern fire arm application and information not related to historical dueling.

Interestly enough, being in the military police, the U.S. Armed Forces Military Law and Uniformed Code of Military Justice still and will apprehend and court martial military personnel for dueling.

Punitive Article 914.114. Dueling.

914. ART. 114. DUELING

Any person subject to this chapter who fights or promotes, or is concerned in or connives at fighting a duel, or who, having knowledge of a challenge sent or about to be sent, fails to report the fact promptly to the proper authority, shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

Gee I guess Major Tim Sheetz and I can't duel next June <img src="/forum/images/icons/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Todd Sullivan

[Guest]

A member of my study group, John Mills, recently moved into an old colonial home with is family. The land lord has an old libary. In it John discovered an original book published in 1854 called Notes on Duels and Dueling. It is mostly on pistols but has an intersting section on swords which I will add here for you:

No XIV THE SWORD PLAYERS OF THE LAST CENTURY

"The 436th number of the Spectator conatins an account of the challenge of James Miller, "master of the noble science of defense," to Timothy Buck, who claimed to posses equal skill, and to combat which followed in the "Bear Gareden, at Hockley in the Hole"; and were there not ample evidence to show that the scenes which Addison describes were frequent, we should almost incline to believe, that, for some of his incidents, he drew upon his imagination, so barbarous does the custom of men hacking one another with swords, for the mere amusement of themselves and others, appear to us"

And

"Donald Bane, a man who had originally been a soldier, but afterwards gained a sustence by teaching the broadsword, and occasionally taking a purse by prize fighting"

and

"In 1725, one Figg entertained the public at an amphitheatre in the Oxford Road, where, on one occasion, Sutton, the champion of Kent, and a female of the same country, fought Stokes and his wife, for forty pounds, to be given to the male or female who gave the most cuts with the sword, and twenty pounds for the most blows of the quarter staff, besides the collection in his box." <img src="/forum/images/icons/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Todd Sullivan

[Guest]

<img src="/forum/images/icons/smirk.gif" alt="" /> There is much more paragraphs in the book and I'll add as we go along; if you find this interesting. The Author is Lorenzo Sabine and the book is reviewed in the ARMA section of research and reading.

Todd

[TimSheetz]

Todd,

Interesting posts. I think we tend to have romanticized views of duelling ... folks just need to read some of th edetailed accounts to get real.

Keep the paragraphs coming!

[Guest]

[Guest]

<img src="/forum/images/icons/confused.gif" alt="" /> Thats a very good question. I don't have the anwser but I will get it for you. I will also look into Great Britian. Thanks for the input Gregg.

Todd

[Guest]

Historical Essay

Judicail Duels, or Wager of Battle-General Remarks-France-England

This form of combat is generally antiquity. Iwas authorized, says Blackstone, in the laws of Gundebald, AD 501, which are preserved in the Burgundian Code. It was founded on the presumption that a brave man did not deserve to suffer, and that a coward did not deserve to live. Confined at first to some tribes of Germany, it was established, finally, in all the monarchies of Europe. The appeal was directly to God, in the unfaltering faith that he would protect the party whose quarrel was just. If the person accused was victorious, he was acquitted as innocent; if he was defeated, he was pronounced guilty, and subjected to the punishment prescribed by law for his offense. If the accuser was vanquished, he was liable to the penalties that would have fallen upon the accused. In civil cases, also, this combat was the common arbiter between disputants to landed estates, and the various kinds of personal property; and even in suits commenced before the tribunals, a party dissatisfied with the proceddings might throw down a glove and challenge a judge to defend himself in the field. Several discripitions of persons were, however, exempted from the necessity of entering the lists to maintain thier innocense, or to protect thier property, and among them were women, ecclesiastics, young men under twenty and old men over sixty years of age, and men who were sick, infirm, or maimed; but all these could employ champions to fight in thier vindication. Such are the general outlines for the judicail duel, and it existed in Europe for a considerable period. Essential modifications were made from age to age, until it was limited in most nations to accusations of criminal nature, and in some, to those which were punsihed with death.

Author Lorenzo Sabine 1855

Enjoy

Todd Sullivan

[BengtAbrahamsson]

The Danish king Frode's duelling law is interesting.
He mentions a fight between an Armatus and a Pugilem Popularis.
A fight between a trained warrior and a common man.
The commoner is aloud to be fully armed but the warrior is only aloud to fight with a wooden truncheon.
Bengt
EHCG

[Guest]

B-

Do you have Danish King Frode's duelling law in a word doc or something that could be e-mailed to me, more, more, give me more!

Todd <img src="/forum/images/icons/cool.gif" alt="" />

[BengtAbrahamsson]

Todd
I only have the text in Swedish and Latin.
Bengt
EHCG

[Guest]

Hi Todd

Interesting topic indeed.

I was wondering about the quote You posted regarding the amphitheatre in Oxford Road.

I'm not sure I got it right, but was the champion of Kent a female herself or was it some man being a champion FOR a female? Do You have more info on this perhaps?

Also, do You have any other quotes relating to females and dueling? Any reply would be much appreciated.

Thank's for Your time and thank's for replying in the other thread.

Take care

Rodney

[BengtAbrahamsson]

There are accounts of female fighter'sin Terry Brown's book The English Martial Arts.
Bengt
EHCG

[Guest]

Translated by Bengt Arbramsson, thanks Bengt <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

King Feode's Dueling Law

Possibly from Saxo Grammaticus;

He commanded by law that every fight should be decided by the sword,because he regarded it to be more noble to fight with your might than with words.
If one of the fighters put his foot outside the designated fighting ground,he should be declared defeated and pay the the cost of whatever the fight was about.
But if a commoner for any reason should fight a professional warrior,he would be aloud to face him fully armoured,while the warrior should fight with only a wooden truncheon,the length of one aln.

Enjoy <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

[Guest]

Rodney,

Sorry for the long wait; I'll look back into the book for more clarity on the amphitheatre in Oxford Road. The author is very vague and doesn't give much detail but an enjoyable read none the less.

Todd

[Guest]

Rodney,

Both men and women fought in these duels:

"In Islington Road, on Monday, the 17th of July 1727, will be performed a trial of skill by the following combatants. "We, Robert Barker and Mary Welsh, from Ireland, having often contaminated our swords with such antagonists as had the insolence to dispute our skill, do find ourselves once more necessitated to challenge, defy, and invite Mr Stokes and his bold Amazonian virago to meet us on the stage, where we hope to give a satisfaction to the honorable lord of our nation who has laid a wager of twenty guineas on our heads. They that give the most cuts to have the whole money, and the benefit of the house; and if swords, daggers, quarter-staff, fury, rage, and resolution will prevail, our friends shall not meet with disappointment."

Page 374: "This will be the last time Mrs Stokes's performing on the stage"

Lorenzo Sabine , 1855



Todd