Swordsmith Apprentice (and intro)

[Guest]

Greetings,
First I'd like to introduce myself. I'm a 17-year-old (Might as well say 18, birthday Feb 6th) student in the Tampa Bay area of Florida. I've always been interested in everything medieval, from culture to living conditions to combat. I found the ARMA while watching the History Channel one evening (a channel I watch almost exclusively), and they were talking about Paul Champagne and the ARMA.

Of course, I was glued to the TV at that time. I have always wanted to learn sword fighting, and fencing was not for me, as it didn't seem "real" enough. I have the attitude that if something is worth doing (or learning in this case), it should be done right. So, naturally, the ARMA is of large appeal to me. But not only would I like to learn how these weapons were used, but also experience the amazing amount of workmanship put into each.

If it is at all possible, I would like to apprentice under a master swordsmith. I would most likely be available for a few months during the summer, during which time I could easily travel anywhere in the continental U.S., but I may even be willing to go outside of the country. I have little I can offer as thanks other than hard work, just as a squire offered his knight manual labor as repayment for training. Any information about this would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Kenneth Mortimer

[John_Clements]

Hi

I can't address swordmaking, but as to Mr. Champaign, he is inccommunicado for now, I'm afraid. He does not teach or offer lessons on swordsmithing, nor make custom weapons. He's solely a researcher. He will however be writing for us again in the future, attending ARMA events, and appear in an upcoming interview.

JC

[Guest]

Hmm, I wasn't exactly inquiring about him specifically. I'd be willing to learn from anyone qualified, or at least get some information on where to begin.

[Ryan Ricks]

my advice to you would be to try learning it yourself. there are certainly books out there on the subject. read Records of the Medieval Sword, by Ewart Oakeshot. it has an appendix that addresses some basic swordmaking concerns. the book will also give you a great idea of how swords looked, what the tangs/hilts are like, etc.

i would also recommend Techniques of Medieval Armor Reproduction, by Brian R. Price. while not specifically on your topic, it has a list of armorsmiths, and their contacat info. surely one of them would know someone. perhaps i can dig around in there for you when i have time.

john's book, medieval swordsmanship also talks about medieval swords in great length. all useful things for you to know.

so do some research, and i'm willing to bet you can learn yourself, without having to intern with someone. you could at least get started, and then if you find someone, be that much more knowledgeable.

ryan

[Craig Peters]

so do some research, and i'm willing to bet you can learn yourself, without having to intern with someone

Far more valuable than reading on the subject is handling actual period blades that have survived. One of the greatest problems in recreating swords is that without actually having accurately measured, weighed, and handled a sword from the Middle Ages or Renaissance it is very easy to make mistakes in constructing them.

Personally, I would recommend trying to learn under an experienced smith who is known for quality. Swordsmithing is not an easy craft, and one thing an experienced smith can do is help you to avoid mistakes commonly made by beginners. Indeed, an older person can be an invaluable guide and mentor in an otherwise potentially frusterating process of trial and error.

If you are really serious about wanting to learn how to make swords:

1) Handle, measure and weigh as many actual surviving historical swords as possible. Make sure that your measurements are as precise as possible, and don't ignore details such as the distal taper of the weapon or it's point of balance.

2) Keep in contact with members of the ARMA. They are more than willing to give opinions regarding weapons, and will provide you with invaluable feedback. Of all the historical fencing organizations, the ARMA has the most expertise in weapons (since we treat the subject as martial art) and have arguably handled the most historical pieces.

3) If at all possible, find an experienced swordsmith. Don't hesitate to ask John Clements or any other senior ARMA members regarding the quality of a smith.

Good luck

[Guest]

so do some research, and i'm willing to bet you can learn yourself, without having to intern with someone. you could at least get started, and then if you find someone, be that much more knowledgeable.

I'm most likely going to get started with learning the basics of blacksmithing in general as well as get some of the tools needed. However, my personal "peeve" is that I would like to not simply create historically accurate replicas, but do it in a historically accurate fashion. In other words, wrought iron and charcoal, and absolutely no machinery.

[Brian Hunt]

Hi Ken,

I am a amature blacksmith/bladesmith/armoursmith. If you are looking at doing things the old way (without power tools) then you will need an anvil of some kind, a coal/charcoal forge (this can be a simple as an old charcoal barbacue grill lined with fire clay and some pipe fitting coming in from the bottom for your air supply (a bellows, or a hand cranked fan, or even a hair drier works), some tongs, a wire brush, and some files. The first thing you need to learn, and learn well is the proper care and feeding of your fire. When you first light a coal fire, you have to 'coke' your coal. This means letting the green smoke burn off until you get a 'clean' fire. Then you can start forging. As you work, you will have to add new fuel to the fire, when you do so you have to wait for the impurities in the new coal to burn off before you start forging again. This is the reason why many smiths have turned to propane forges, no smoke or fire maintence. With the basic tools I have mentioned above, a good smith can make the rest of his own tools. Fullers, swages, tongs, hammers, etc. You might want to visit this website www.anvilfire.com there are a lot of really good smiths there, and several articles on projects, how to build forges, etc. I would also reccomend the book 'The complete bladesmith' by Jim Hrisoulas and his 2 subsequent titles in this set. Also the book 'New edge of the anvil' by Andrews. You might want to check out http://www.centaurforge.com/ as a place for books, videos, and tools. I would also suggest attending some classes and some hammer ins. The American Bladesmithing Society has some really good classes that they hold in Hope Arkansas, in conjunction with Texarkana College. There are other classes held around the country. An average cost for a 2 week hands on class is about $500.

Good Luck on your quest.

Brian Hunt

GFS

[Guest]

Actually, I've already looked through the CentaurForge site and glanced at the Anvilfire site <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

I purchased Jim Hrisoulas' "The Complete Bladesmith" about a month ago after I got an overwhelming number of fellow smiths recommending it. So far I haven't been disappointed _except_ for the diagrams, which I feel were very poorly done. <img src="/forum/images/icons/frown.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, I'll look through the anvilfire site a bit more in-depth and look at the American Bladesmithing Society. Thanks for the info! <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Eric Dougherty]

Hey Ken! I myself had an oppurtunity(actually still do) to do some bladesmithing and it was interesting. The metal shop down here was pretty lacking, but it was fun to make a go at it. I definitely "cheated" and used modern equipment and pretty much just did stock removal. I used appropriately sized leaf springs I got from a junkyard, and made my own little forge to straighten them out, and warm 'em up for heat treatment later. I used an angle grinder to do most of the blade shaping and had fun with it. It was a huge learning experience. Especially the hilt. But it was great fun. I still have a couple projects I am working on and I am just amazed with the skill and determination of a real master bladesmith. Now that I've seen and experienced how hard it is to make a sword, I've got a lot more respect for sword makers. Anyway, as a fellow teenager (17), I say go for it and I wish you luck. May advice is get as much experience with any kind of metal working you can, and constantly examine the "real deal". One of the greatest ways to learn is by discovery, so if you can find a blacksmith to help you great, but if not, I say pursue smithing anyway and learn as much as you can now. Like I said, best of luck and have fun!

[M Wallgren]

Might be ti late but anyway...

Make the same recuest on www.myarmoury.com, there is some "famous" Swordsmiths lurking there...

Martin

[Andrew Kesterson]

Also a little late, but if you're still around and still looking for a forge, try finding any Amish that live in your area (or an area nearby - may be difficult in Florida). When my brother wanted to get into bladesmithing (back in the Ozarks in Missouri), he got a good coal forge from the local Amish for a song (apparently they had a spare). Admittedly, I don't recall how much it cost.

Good luck.