Die Waage / Libra (balance, scales)

[David_Knight]

The term die Waage appears in plate 5 of the Codex Wallerstein and is described thusly:

"You should stretch your arms and your sword far from you and put yourself into a low body position [die Waage, balance, scales] so that you have good reach and expulsion with your sword... The reach is in your standing behind your sword and bending yourself; the distance is in your staying low... and making yourself small in your body" (Zabinski, 18).

Paulus Hector Mair, who owned the Codex, refers to die Waage (Libra in Latin) in Shortstaff #15 of both the Dresden and Vienna MSS, but his illustrations don't quite match the description of a "low body stance" in the Codex. The left figure is indeed bent over, but his feet are together, which doesn't seem very balanced to me.

Can anyone explain exactly what the "balance" is? Does it appear in other manuals? Are there any clear illustrations of it?

[Casper Bradak]

It isn't uncommon in unarmed application, but is described differently, more as an equal weight, straight centerline stance. The one with the sword sounds like a modification of it, or referring specifically to the position of the legs/feet in regards to the waage. I'm sure the wallerstein codex also talks about the unarmed application, at least on p.66 of the translation.
The waage is a low, strong, stable and above all balanced position. Place your weight equally on both feet, deepen your stance, bend the knees, bring the feet beyond shoulder width apart. Keep one foot back, but do not go linear or square off, at least with the feet. Keep the feet on about a 45 deg. facing.
It's no stretch to think that different masters from different schools with different weapons would possibly use the same name for different stances as well.
Could you put up a link to the Mair image?

http://www.thearma.org/pdf/Wurm/01b.jpg

[JeffGentry]

Hey David

"You should stretch your arms and your sword far from you and put yourself into a low body position [die Waage, balance, scales] so that you have good reach and expulsion with your sword.

One big thing I have noticed when I thrust with a long sword is that when I take even a small lunge it is more balanced.

When I thrust out I naturally bend a little forward at the waist and extend my arm's in front, When I see an opening and thrust, if I do it without hesitation or doubt it naturally extends my reach and it is very powerful if I try to think about doing it I stumble around and it is very slow to recover and I usually miss I had to make a decision of when I see the opening to thrust I am going to thrust now it is pretty automatic for me I thrust more than most I think in my study group, if you over extend it is slow to recover, for awhile I took a board with a knot in it and just practiced thrusting at the knot trying to hit the knot and got a feel for how my body reacted to doing a thrust my leg's hurt for awhile when I did this because they weren't used to holding me that way, it take's a good amount of leg strength to hold you in a balanced position and recover quickly from a powerful thrust

[David_Knight]

Could you put up a link to the Mair image?

Here's the Vienna version:



The full-sized image is at http://www.thehaca.com/Manuals/Mair/247.jpg

[Aaron Pynenberg]

I also find the thrust to be most effective when combined with a natural follow through with the body and legs. Try not always to thrust just from the hips/upper body, while that tech. certainally has advantages, it also has disadvatages as well.

Try both ways, follow through with your lower body and see what I mean, start with the hands, thrusting forcefully akin to a quick punch, as you reach extension with the arms follow through with the lower body allowing the force to carry your body into a stable stance, leaning into the thrust at the end phase of the tech.

This is demonstrated best by starting in a right pflug, thrusting with the above tech then recovering into the left ochs, or back to left pflug, then repeat.

You will begin to notice much more point control and force, you also continue to shield your body with the sword as you move forward, a key concept of our art.

A good exercise to develope strength and stamina with this is the lunge, with and without dumbells.- Aaron

[David_Knight]

After carefully examining the text, the figure on the right is in one of many balanced stances, protecting his face against a "violent thrust." Mair seems to be using die wag and libra to refer to the distribution of weight on both legs, not the particular guard itself.

Still not sure what the left figure is supposed to represent, though, as he doesn't really match anything in the German or Latin descriptions. One step involves an uberlauffen, "overreaching", but all the strikes in this plate are aimed at the opponent's head/face, not his legs/groin (as seemingly depicted here). And bending over with the feet close together just doesn't seem martially sound to me, nor is it described.