A Civil Dispute and a Question on Being a Scholar

[jeremy pace]

First of all, to have this issue make any sense in such a short form i will need to provide some background.... When i was 14 my best friend Timmothy talked me into "swordfighting" with him and an older friend of ours. We had been great friends and delighted even further in learning together how to fight. We had no one to teach us and our weapons were crude, but im sure we can all relate with those two sentiments. (that is what we are trying to revive is it not?) The other eventually fell away but was replaced by new friends and we taught them what we had learned but did not hold to any strict form or style in the thought that we were all evolving together to form something unique.

When i turned about 17(or maybe a little before that) I decided i had went as far as i could go on my own and joined a local fencing salle.... my dear friend and i agreed though that it would be more economical if he did something different, and then we could teach eachother what we had learned. So i studied sport fencing while he took some kendo and this started the downward spiral that has since developed. For our plan to work together horribly backfired in the one area that had always fueled our learning... competitiveness.

I'm sure you can all work out for yourselves how this turned out. I decided after 6 months that fencing was not for me and he quit kendo as well, but that rivalry had blossomed. It was no longer about learning, but about winning! In no way assume that i place fault on him. I have long since reconciled within myself that i am just as much to blame.... the end result now is that we are both stubborn proud men who love eachother as brothers but cant work together. Our training group drifted apart and those that remain are torn between the two of us. One of them and i have discovered ARMA and it is everything we ever dreamed being a swordsman should be, but Timmothy is now the leader of his own house in the SCA whom i have hardly any respect for as a martial artist. I have invited him to come and practice with us and he refuses to put aside his rattan club and see the merits of this organization that is trying to revive our heritage. I dont want to argue with him (i send him essays and links and u name it from here and while he is interested in the literature finds hardly any difference between this and SCA) but we both want the same thing...... everytime i pick up my sword i want his insight and thoughts but it seems as if this will never happen. So here is my question..... has anyone else experienced this? I know a lot of ARMA members were in other m.a.s and the SCA and would love any thoughts and input. I live in Oklahoma and am trying to put together a studygroup here. Thanks.

[Aaron Pynenberg]

Keep it cordial, and stop sending him any more material, learn for yourself, study hard. Then in the future spar him using the knowledge you gain and beat him soundly. Do not hold back at all. This will achive one of two things.

He will either hate your guts for it- or learn the merits of the Organization and maybe listen to what you have to say- so, it's a 50/50 chance. Otherwise if you value his friendship that much, (sounds like you do), just respect that you have grown apart into your own separate intrest areas and leave it at that- don't spar him or compete on this arena-find something else to compete him on.

I have been in this situation as well, and it really can mean an end to the friendship- In my case we went our seperate ways and I still think about it from time to time- but whatever man, life goes on, I have made new friends and training partners and that is that- good luck, Aaron

[GaryGrzybek]

I pretty much agree with Aaron on this one. I've lost several training partners due to either political nonsense or non constructive differences. You eventually learn how to heal and move on. Each individual must decide in their own mind what they really want. The ones that fall along the wayside are probably the same ones that would have held you back.

[jeremy pace]

I guess thats just the thing... Like i said he wants the same thing i do, that we do. He wants to revive wma and turn it from being horribly misinterpreted to a genuine ma. I see arma as a means to this and he wants to stick to the sca because they have more people and he has some prestige among them. ...... i have thought on what you said though. I dont think it will ever come to an all out end of our friendship, but ive never been faced with this type of dillema. Its really a shame though, the guy is a genius when it comes to weapons. He can pick up virtually anything and make it work. Like you said though, maybe i just need to show him through action.... its hard though when you have to fight someone with sca rules that hardly pertain to real swordsmanship. Gods i would love to grab that shield with my off hand and introduce his helm to my quillion! I have learned so much from arma! Thanks gents for your thoughts.

[Brian Hunt]

Offer to fight him under SCA rules if he will then fight you under the rule structure that you wish. If he is a SCA knight, don't be surprised if you lose under SCA conditions, SCA knights are experts at exploiting the rules that they play under. However when you switch to a more realistic format, go all out and take him. Then have a conversation about how rules can change the format of the realism of what you do. If he won't step outside of the bounds of SCA rules, forget it and just enjoy your friendship with him. He is only insterested in what he can do inside the SCA. Remember, the SCA is a strong social group and it's members are usually only interested in what they can do to gain the approval of that social group.

just a thought.

Brian Hunt
GFS

[Joachim Nilsson]

Sit down with him, one on one, and have a coffee or a beer with him and just talk things through.

If you manage to sort things out then propose a sparring session "just for old time's sake". If that doesn't work maybe it's for the best if you keep your friendship on a non-martial level.

I had a falling out with Martin Wallgren last year (due to training related reasons) and didn't even speak with him for three months. Then he came over, we sat down, had a cup of coffee, said a sentence each and started with a clean slate. We're tighter than ever now and he's one of my closest friends, in both martial matters as well as personal ones.

Best regards,
Joachim

[John_Clements]

I've seen this before. I'd say his motives and needs are just not the same as yours. He gets some fulfillment out of the Sca subculture's role-play scene that makes him feel good. While you, in contrast, appear driven by a different desire for true martial knowledge and historical skill. Best to just go your own ways.

JC