Meyer's Dusack Video

[Mike Cartier]

My first attempt at a highlight video of our dusack sparring matches.
Distilled from about 1 gig of Dusack videos down to nearly 60 mb
ARMA-SFL Meyer Dusack

[Mike Cartier]

For anyone wantingto watch all the videos unedited, they are all in this file All Dusack Bouts 90 mb

[Allen Johnson]

Looks fun. Maybe try upgrading to wooden wasters. I think it would be interesting to see how much more cautious the attacks would be with the risk of a bit more stout of a blow. Many exchanges seem pretty haphazard.

[Mike Cartier]

well we are still in an experimental phase, we would have to slow it down so much with woodens (which we have) that we wouldn't really be doing anything close to the speed of Dusack. later we will slow it down and use wood, hard leather or aluminum.

Not sure what you mean by haphazard <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />, the frequency of double kills is much more so than with longsword due to the speed of the fight. Its very fast so even when you get strikes in you can often get hit before you defend or get away.

[Allen Johnson]

I guess I meant more of the type of caution that occurs when you think of it as a real life or death situation. Maybe you are doing that and I'm just way off <img src="/forum/images/icons/laugh.gif" alt="" />

[Mike Cartier]

No you are right about the level of caution, thats always a problem with padded weapon sparring. But also there is too much caution, i am working on that problem a bit now in my transition from padded longsword to steel blunt sparring.

[Byron Doyle]

later we will slow it down and use wood, hard leather or aluminum

Keep in mind the fact that the dusack is a wooden weapon, and thus using a wooden dusack "waster" is really akin to using a real dusack (though I'm sure they would have been weighted specially somehow). As far as I know, there is only one antique example of a metal dusack out there. Maybe you should incorporate into your sparring the idea that just because you got whacked with the dusack, it may not be disabilitating. So as much as you thing of strong strikes with, say, longsword, remember, wood doesn't (usually) cut, and wouldn't cut like a steel edge would.

[Craig Peters]

Unless I'm mistaken Byron, dussacks are used for practicing messer work, and so any hit with a wooden dussack should be treated as a hit with a sharp messer.

[Jake_Norwood]

There's a few pretty convincing arguments out there that a dussack, made of wood, was a civilian-style weapon, used for self defense or police-type actions, not unlike a billy club. I think that, though dussack training = messer training has a lot of applicability, and that the two are tightly related, I think that the Dusssack may very well be a weapon in its own right.

Jake

[Byron Doyle]

What Jake said. Honestly though, I would rather be using a messer waster for messer practice, but then I don't know what they would do historically but use dusacks. They certainly could be applied either way though.

One thing to think about is as to why Meyer would include a dusack section in his manual and not just a messer section instead, assuming that dusack is practice for messer. In my studies of messer I have also found that dusack and messer, while capable of being used similarly, are two different weapons in terms of handling characteristics.

[Mike Cartier]

My theory on the Dusack is that it is indeed a method for training the Messer and any other single handed sword (especially a short sword). But i also think the Dusack is its own weapon, sort of mid evolution on the way to the cutlass of later centuries. I think the lack of metal surviving examples is due to the probable low quality of the Dusack, the metal was probably reused. The wooden and hard leather versions are for bouting and for crowd control. I think carrying a wooden or leather Dusack would have circumvented some of the sword laws of the time.

[Brian Hunt]

Hi Mike,

there are even a couple of plates from Mair's dussack section that are almost identicle to a couple of messer plates from a earlier manual (can't remember which one off the top of my head, will have to check my research notes). This supports your theory and mine that dussack is a later training weapon for messer. I also agree that wooden and leather dussacks were used for crowd control.

laters.

Brian Hunt
GFS

[JeanryChandler]

There are some cutlass-like "dussacks" on the Myarmoury site.

JR

[Byron Doyle]

The more that I look into it the more that that Mike and Brian's theories are close to what could have been. I've seen some of the messer-dusack similarities in the manuals (though I haven't found what Brian mentioned in my casual search). Brian, could you give plate numbers for those references? I'd really like to see this.

[Jonathan Hill]

Maestro MacDonald has written a decent article on the Dusack, tracing it back to a Flax working tool. I'm not sure if it's 'officially' published but I found a 'copy' The lecture and class he gave on it was exceptional.

http://www.country-gallery.com/flaxtools.html
move over to the history tab...