The ARMA and everyone else.

[Aaron Pynenberg]

Jaron, good call on the perishability of skill sets. That's very true, and the "real" expirences shared are often not relayed in the lesson plans, but in side bars, and attitude.

There is so much more to teaching combatives than just skills transmitted and learned, much of it is attitude and comportment. These are things not easily conveyed.

I think the Jordan message got a little jumbled but I think I know what you are saying by establishing the "base" values. The discipline as a whole is growing and evolving-the core of ARMA's approach- not dogmatic or set but changing and evolving- the way it should be-

[david welch]

I am conflicted.

I dislike the whole thing because it is easily confusing to people new to the arts...

But, I like it because it helps me.

There are enough people talking in WMA right now that it is good to have a filter on the information. I look at some of the "controversies" as an easy way for me to evaluate a source of information.

If you say you are a "longsword master", or belong to a group that has them... well, any thing you say gets evaluated and filed under a special criteria. Teach or advocate edge bashing? Well then, I feel I can safely assume you weigh the teachings of Highlander with those of Doebringer and judge your opinions accordingly.

I'm not sure I want these people to stop what they are doing. I might like it if they were required to state their opinions on the first line of their every post.

I am longsword master Westley Crusher, of a living longsword tradition that goes back to the dark ages. I teach edge blocking, and how swords have majical properties. I am also a vampire Count.

This is how I do the wrath cut...

This, would make it a lot easier to separate the wheat from the chaff in long posts.

[Jaron Bernstein]

[quote="Aaron Pynenberg"]Jaron, good call on the perishability of skill sets. That's very true, and the "real" expirences shared are often not relayed in the lesson plans, but in side bars, and attitude.

There is so much more to teaching combatives than just skills transmitted and learned, much of it is attitude and comportment. These are things not easily conveyed.


Exactly. We HAVE at least some of the lesson plans for HF (some more detailed than others). Bringing them to life as a real world usable skill is the challenge.

[Michael Eging]

Jaron, you put it into perspective. Perishability of skill is a terrific vantage point to view this from. We are recreating a 400 year removed tradition. Mastery of this is just not possible without all the real world factors of the 15th or 16th century in which the Art was put to use. As one who came from a sport fencing background, I can tell you - mastery of a pistol-grip epee will not prepare you to "master" Fiore. And you may be a maestro of an epee fencer.

Mike

[Nathan Dexter]

I find it interesting that you claim us to be so "ignorant" and "impolite" In our manner of speech, and then come right back at us with with statments that are frankly hypocritical. And I think it is absurd to try to make happy statements about something that you dissagree with.

In order to make this post not totally irrelevent, I want to say that yes, classical fencing does have historical basis, but it is so far removed from what we study, that they dont really compare.

also... I get the 200th post! Ha!

[Michael Eging]

I, for one, have found the underlying issues to be very interesting and an area that I do not have much knowledge and had hoped to learn more.



Mike

[Shane Smith]

I guess what I find amazing is the attempt to niche all of us studying with ARMA as mindless clones in terms of our view of the world, of historical martial arts, or whatever. We are not. But some of us have an interest in these issues. As has been admitted previously, this thread got over-heated. By bouncing in to take shots, rather than moving the discussion forward, you are guilty of continuing the lack of civility that you decry in others. Note, the thread had moved on to examine the issue from a different angle. So you effectively dragged it back rather than offering to step forward.

We don't need to continue the baiting in an effort to prove how neanderthal we all are. I, for one, have found the underlying issues to be very interesting and an area that I do not have much knowledge and had hoped to learn more.



Mike

If any of you are replying to an inflammatory post that was posted above and now is gone, please modify your own posts in that regard. The offending post had no place on our forum and comments that do it dignity by responding to it are un-needed.

[Shane Smith]

Jaron, good call on the perishability of skill sets. That's very true, and the "real" expirences shared are often not relayed in the lesson plans, but in side bars, and attitude.

There is so much more to teaching combatives than just skills transmitted and learned, much of it is attitude and comportment. These are things not easily conveyed.

I think the Jordan message got a little jumbled but I think I know what you are saying by establishing the "base" values. The discipline as a whole is growing and evolving-the core of ARMA's approach- not dogmatic or set but changing and evolving- the way it should be-

Aaron, that perishability of skills concept is a sound one. There is no shortage of experienced men in whatever field that while once physically and mentally very commmanding in their endeavours, find their actual practical skills severely reduced by old age or injury. These men may not still be the most physically capable around, but the fact that they have "been there and done that" makes their input on technique and attitude of lasting merit.

The peoples whose opinions and input I don't respect are those that will talk you to death on theory all the while never having rolled up their own sleeves and demonstrated competency of a high degree. When given the option of taking advice from a talker or a doer of things, I always trust the guy with dirt under his nails.

[Matt Rovaris]

Please permit me to make clarity on the subject of masters or maestri, modern fencing and the gentleman from whom Mc Donald received his title.

In Europe, is possible to earn the title maestro in modern fencing. This is through officially-accredited entities like the FFE in France or the Accademia Nazionale in Italy. The syllabus is old-fashioned, and takes into consideration not only the needs of modern fencing, but also the national traditions of the last 150 years.

In some cases, it is even possible to earn the title of "magister" in historical combat (HistoriCombat), although this is not as rigorous and also considers the theatrical aspect of fighting, so it's not a martial qualification in the true sense.

I have heard a lot of things about this "Sinclair."

The reason I'm saying "Sinclair" in little commas is because his real surname is Lupo, and it was only after an infatuation with Gaelic culture that he came back to Italy wearing a kilt and calling himself by a new Scottish name.

He is quite a character. A very charismatic individual, he started claiming to have learned fencing from a vagrant master from Brittany around 1995.

This master was supposedly called Le Scouezec. Last carrier of a long tradition, no relatives, lived secluded, now dead, etcetera etcetera, as those of us who have done Japanese arts have heard a million times. But the coup de scene was, this Le Scouezec is instead alive and in good health, and instead of being a fencing master, he is... a neo-druid!

Here's his little space on the Internet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwenc%E2%8 ... u%C3%ABzec

What is "Sinclair's" real fencing background? Upon my honour, I don't know (nobody knows) but for certain, he is not a modern fencing master, since no official governing body in Europe has heard his name. We just heard that he's been able to sell his persona to some friends in the USA, and that with these friends, he created an organization that can issue master certificates in historical fencing. So, he will tell you he is a master, but never say how he got his certification. All very legittimate, as you can see.

As for the other gentlemen mentioned in this post, I've never met Mr. Loriega nor Mr. Mc Donald, but I can tell you that "Sinclair" is a fraud, and is well-known in Europe for being that. To judge from his posts, Mc Donald is a victim of the circumstances, perhaps guilty of excessive trust for his friends.

I have never heard of Lorriega, so I can't give my opinion on him.

[Will Adamson]

Huh. Interesting.

A bit beside the point, but I thought that French citizens could not join the Foreign Legion. Besides being another layer of deception, it doesn't really matter I guess.

If this is true, it's just getting weirder all the time.

[Randall Pleasant]

Huh. Interesting.

A bit beside the point, but I thought that French citizens could not join the Foreign Legion. Besides being another layer of deception, it doesn't really matter I guess.

If this is true, it's just getting weirder all the time.

Back in the 1970's there was a joke something like:
"The problem with the French Foreign Legion of today is that it is full of French".

[Gianluca Zanini]

Please permit me to make clarity on the subject of masters or maestri, modern fencing and the gentleman from whom Mc Donald received his title.

In Europe, is possible to earn the title maestro in modern fencing. This is through officially-accredited entities like the FFE in France or the Accademia Nazionale in Italy. The syllabus is old-fashioned, and takes into consideration not only the needs of modern fencing, but also the national traditions of the last 150 years.

In some cases, it is even possible to earn the title of "magister" in historical combat (HistoriCombat), although this is not as rigorous and also considers the theatrical aspect of fighting, so it's not a martial qualification in the true sense.

I have heard a lot of things about this "Sinclair."

The reason I'm saying "Sinclair" in little commas is because his real surname is Lupo, and it was only after an infatuation with Gaelic culture that he came back to Italy wearing a kilt and calling himself by a new Scottish name.

He is quite a character. A very charismatic individual, he started claiming to have learned fencing from a vagrant master from Brittany around 1995.

This master was supposedly called Le Scouezec. Last carrier of a long tradition, no relatives, lived secluded, now dead, etcetera etcetera, as those of us who have done Japanese arts have heard a million times. But the coup de scene was, this Le Scouezec is instead alive and in good health, and instead of being a fencing master, he is... a neo-druid!

Here's his little space on the Internet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwenc%E2%8 ... u%C3%ABzec

What is "Sinclair's" real fencing background? Upon my honour, I don't know (nobody knows) but for certain, he is not a modern fencing master, since no official governing body in Europe has heard his name. We just heard that he's been able to sell his persona to some friends in the USA, and that with these friends, he created an organization that can issue master certificates in historical fencing. So, he will tell you he is a master, but never say how he got his certification. All very legittimate, as you can see.

I've never met him nor Mr. Mc Donald, but I can tell you that "Sinclair" is a fraud, and is well-known in Europe for being that. To judge from his posts, Mc Donald is a victim of the circumstances, perhaps guilty of excessive trust for his friends.

I have never heard of Lorriega, so I can't give my opinion on him.

Well, since Matt unveil some particular of the that legend, I can contribute with some more.
I could tell you so many stories about this character that it would need much more than a forum post, but permit me to say just some anecdotes that may enlighten you on the matter.

Parma year 1992/93, G.Galvani, founder of Nova Scrimia group, at the beginning of the experimentation of the italian martial arts, trained with Mondini, pioneer in Italy of the mixed styles of unarmed WMA.(wrestling, 800 pugilism and abracar etc)
This was a “private club”, rather than a public fencing room, and many enthusiasts visited the group from many different unarmed disciplines, eastern included.
It was really a forge attended by different people, some champions of the ring fighting sport.
One day they were waiting for a guy who introduced himself as an "expert of Breton wrestling".
When he arrived Mondini treated him as he normally did with all visitors, friendly but with that “practicality” appreciated by the true fighters all over the world.
In short this guy crossed his arms with Mondini's who threw him badly on the ground-badly because of the Breton wrestler inexperience not for a particular Mondini's commitment-inclining one rib of the wrestler "Sinclair", who from his side was so kind to charge Mondini for "personal lesion".

Few years later in a re-enactment event, which our group attended, a Scottish (in the traditional dress) guy called Sinclair introduced himself as the one who was handling the sword inherited by his “forefathers”, and in this very demonstration the blade broke in two parts.
Some days later we knew from Fulvio DelTin that the same guy complained to him because of the broken blade.

Finally in 2000 a "Maestro of duel", heir of an unbroken living tradition of Scherma da terreno, invited us to joint IMAF with a long and flattering letter, offering the teaching of unarmed and dagger combat, the only subjects where, according to their authorities, we excelled enough to deserve such a honoured position.
We kindly refused the invitation and thought all was over, but later (2001)as we were purchasing some items in a US internet site (dont remember well but should be "By the sword"), the shop assistant told us:
"You know, guys, that Mr.Sinclair is calling you fraudulent on the yahoo newsgroup?"
From that day on we unveil so many dirt and disrepute this character spread over us as much as he could.
Firstly with the correspondence with eminent US leaders (JC one of the first) and then further confirmation when I travelled overseas meeting others group in person.
No need to say how useless all our attempts have been to challenge these people in a public tournament.
Even more useless to express with words what it is enough evident by its own.


sincerly

Gianluca Zanini
www.novascrimia.com

[Michael Eging]

Please permit me to make clarity on the subject of masters or maestri, modern fencing and the gentleman from whom Mc Donald received his title.

In Europe, is possible to earn the title maestro in modern fencing. This is through officially-accredited entities like the FFE in France or the Accademia Nazionale in Italy. The syllabus is old-fashioned, and takes into consideration not only the needs of modern fencing, but also the national traditions of the last 150 years.

In some cases, it is even possible to earn the title of "magister" in historical combat (HistoriCombat), although this is not as rigorous and also considers the theatrical aspect of fighting, so it's not a martial qualification in the true sense.

I have heard a lot of things about this "Sinclair."

The reason I'm saying "Sinclair" in little commas is because his real surname is Lupo, and it was only after an infatuation with Gaelic culture that he came back to Italy wearing a kilt and calling himself by a new Scottish name.

He is quite a character. A very charismatic individual, he started claiming to have learned fencing from a vagrant master from Brittany around 1995.

This master was supposedly called Le Scouezec. Last carrier of a long tradition, no relatives, lived secluded, now dead, etcetera etcetera, as those of us who have done Japanese arts have heard a million times. But the coup de scene was, this Le Scouezec is instead alive and in good health, and instead of being a fencing master, he is... a neo-druid!

Here's his little space on the Internet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwenc%E2%8 ... u%C3%ABzec

What is "Sinclair's" real fencing background? Upon my honour, I don't know (nobody knows) but for certain, he is not a modern fencing master, since no official governing body in Europe has heard his name. We just heard that he's been able to sell his persona to some friends in the USA, and that with these friends, he created an organization that can issue master certificates in historical fencing. So, he will tell you he is a master, but never say how he got his certification. All very legittimate, as you can see.

I've never met him nor Mr. Mc Donald, but I can tell you that "Sinclair" is a fraud, and is well-known in Europe for being that. To judge from his posts, Mc Donald is a victim of the circumstances, perhaps guilty of excessive trust for his friends.

I have never heard of Lorriega, so I can't give my opinion on him.

Well, since Matt unveil some particular of the that legend, I can contribute with some more.
I could tell you so many stories about this character that it would need much more than a forum post, but permit me to say just some anecdotes that may enlighten you on the matter.

Parma year 1992/93, G.Galvani, founder of Nova Scrimia group, at the beginning of the experimentation of the italian martial arts, trained with Mondini, pioneer in Italy of the mixed styles of unarmed WMA.(wrestling, 800 pugilism and abracar etc)
This was a “private club”, rather than a public fencing room, and many enthusiasts visited the group from many different unarmed disciplines, eastern included.
It was really a forge attended by different people, some champions of the ring fighting sport.
One day they were waiting for a guy who introduced himself as an "expert of Breton wrestling".
When he arrived Mondini treated him as he normally did with all visitors, friendly but with that “practicality” appreciated by the true fighters all over the world.
In short this guy crossed his arms with Mondini's who threw him badly on the ground-badly because of the Breton wrestler inexperience not for a particular Mondini's commitment-inclining one rib of the wrestler "Sinclair", who from his side was so kind to charge Mondini for "personal lesion".

Few years later in a re-enactment event, which our group attended, a Scottish (in the traditional dress) guy called Sinclair introduced himself as the one who was handling the sword inherited by his “forefathers”, and in this very demonstration the blade broke in two parts.
Some days later we knew from Fulvio DelTin that the same guy complained to him because of the broken blade.

Finally in 2000 a "Maestro of duel", heir of an unbroken living tradition of Scherma da terreno, invited us to joint IMAF with a long and flattering letter, offering the teaching of unarmed and dagger combat, the only subjects where, according to their authorities, we excelled enough to deserve such a honoured position.
We kindly refused the invitation and thought all was over, but later (2001)as we were purchasing some items in a US internet site (dont remember well but should be "By the sword"), the shop assistant told us:
"You know, guys, that Mr.Sinclair is calling you fraudulent on the yahoo newsgroup?"
From that day on we unveil so many dirt and disrepute this character spread over us as much as he could.
Firstly with the correspondence with eminent US leaders (JC one of the first) and then further confirmation when I travelled overseas meeting others group in person.
No need to say how useless all our attempts have been to challenge these people in a public tournament.
Even more useless to express with words what it is enough evident by its own.


sincerly

Gianluca Zanini
www.novascrimia.com

One can only imagine the sell on those without the means to validate credentials, or if not validate, at least question. It does begin to start to sound like a recent best seller about conspiracy...

Very interesting.

Thanks!
Mike

[Randall Pleasant]

Gianluca and Matt

Thank you so very much.

[Nathan Dexter]

Well... I think that sheds some light on some things.