Fiore dei Liberi's students

[John_Clements]

Cool, thanks.

[Jeffrey Hull]

In 1383 Fiore, who must have an age of 33/39 years, is signed in Public Registers of Udine, where there was in progress the war against the Patriarch of Aquileia, the French Filippo d’Alençon, in charge for supervisory and maintenance of the crossbows and all the weapons “atte a saettare” (useful to throw) for the defence of the Town.
Then we can infer that he already had a good knowledge of the war machines, acquired in previous experiences. This could confirm our theory of his presence in the war theatres of the past period.

Cool stuff, thanks!

That De Liberi knew war machinery / siegecraft, was previously unknown to me, but makes total sense.

It is doubtless that another fight-master, Talhoffer, knew of the Bellifortis designs for example, so it is logical that others like Dei Liberi should also have similar battle-craft knowledge.

These men had a diversity of knowledge beyond what some mainstream academics bother to investigate and give them credit for having.

[Jeffrey Hull]

Nice study.

I came to the same conclusions - following the leading research made by Matt Easton - in my 2004 articles (in French) about Fiore.

Yes, what Fabrice wrote are L'Art Du Combat I & II, are found here:

http://mhewer.club.fr/fr/historique.htm

Pull down menu from Archives, Cognot I & II.

And I guess those are also in that black book that he and Bart and others got published recently.

JH

[Gianluca Zanini]

Cool stuff, thanks!

That De Liberi knew war machinery / siegecraft, was previously unknown to me, but makes total sense.

These men had a diversity of knowledge beyond what some mainstream academics bother to investigate and give them credit for having.

True! Fiore even state he had to write something on blade forge.
It seems that writing the Flos Duellatorum, took a lot of time and he was involved in a heavy commitment.
This could refrain Fiore of planning other manuscript project.
Or that the work has been lost.
Endly he even stated in the prolouge:
" and even other marvelous things no man have ever seen."

This statement along with forge knowledge and numerologic structure of the manuscript, make us believe that he was very close to the alchemic circles of thew period.
What was this thing nobody ever seen? Gunpowder?

Gianluca Zanini
www.novacrimia.com

[Jeffrey Hull]

More very interesting stuff, more studies by Dei Liberi that paralleled studies by Talhoffer (Classical, Jewish & Persian/Arabic cosmology, physiology, etc.).

Perhaps the unwritten/lost manuscripts by Dei Liberi were not just about swordcrafting but also incendiary & ballistics, as it seems you suggest. It would be nice if these are found somehow. Who knows what may be found.

In the MS 3227a from 1389, the one with all the Doebringer fighting lessons, is a section on the hardening of metals, some herbal/chemical formulas, and some gunpowder stuff.

By the way : full details of Talhoffer's vast interests may be found in the PDF that I finished recently and which is available here at ARMA website.

Good researching everybody,

JH

[Scott A. Richardson]

This is wonderful information regarding Dei Liberi's students -- and I've often wondered for whom exactly were these fechtbuchs written. Is there any conclusive evidence that Dei Liberi trained under Lichtenauer while he was in Germany, and therefore represents and Italian interpretation of the Germany school of combat?

Thank you

[Nigel Plum]

This is wonderful information regarding Dei Liberi's students -- and I've often wondered for whom exactly were these fechtbuchs written. Is there any conclusive evidence that Dei Liberi trained under Lichtenauer while he was in Germany, and therefore represents and Italian interpretation of the Germany school of combat?

Thank you

We don't actually know that Fiore travelled to Germany. He says he studied with German masters, but there was no shortage of Germans in Northern Italy in the late C14th.

And the aforementioned Fiore learnt these things from many German masters. And from many Italians in many provinces and in many cities with immense and great expenses.

Is there any evidence that Lichtenauer travelled to Italy?