Blocking and Versetzen

[steve hick]

Actually, Stu may be right. The English two handed/ 1.5 sword material (Cotton Titus, Add, and Harley) use variations on the term "stop".

Steve

[Bart Walczak]

There is also a german text which advocates wide parrying and flashy techniques.

Don't forget the context, though - it might (and probably is) fechtschule.

[Guest]

"Stopping parries?" I should very much like it if you could qoute for me one of these, and explain why you have interpreted it thus. Maybe I'm just being dense, but I've read both of Silver's treaises, and I see nothing like this in either. Also, if you've any insight into "Cotton Titus," I would be glad of an insight you could bring to bear on it. Enlighten me please.

[steve hick]

Cotton Titus has not stoppis, my mistake, the phrases do not end, except to end. There is in fact nothing like a ward or a step --possible interpretations of stop*. Titus is interesting as it has twice a refrain "ever þe fote þe hande þe hye and þe herte to accorde." (very Silver)

Add MSS has phrases such as "and stande at youre stoppe." at the end of a phrase. There are about 30 uses of this phrase, which is used at the end of a phrase. We have concluded "However, in both there are items such as stoppis, at the end of a phrase, which should really be interpretted as retruning to your ground or guard rather than something that is actively warding.". Except in specific instances (stopping rabbit) which conflates the terms rabbit, which is more likely a countering technique than a stoppis.

Harelian has many stop*, in some instances these are 'steps', but not in all, as in the phrase "stondyng on ye erthe stil wt a stop", there are perhaps a dozen instances, perhaps 2-3 are stops standing still, indicating that something else is going on here.

Steve

[Stuart McDermid]

Hi Brandon,

Well Silver says to make all your gatherings to your opponent's right hand side. If I move there whilst making a guardant parry, I cannot help but stop the incoming blow dead.
This is just one example, I can find more.
Cheers,
Stu.

[Jeffrey Hull]

Hey Fellows,

Yes, it seems that way to me too, Bart -- and perhaps the idea of Absetzen as "putting-down" an attack is more helpful to differentiate from the more purely Meisterhau-matched "setting-aside" of the Versetzen.

I propose that to translate Versetzen as "forsetting" gives us a mindset closer to the Meisterhau idea: meeting the foe's strike with a combined diversion & strike of one's own.

Good luck,

Jeffrey Hull