Reverse knife fighting

For Historical European Fighting Arts, Weaponry, & Armor

Moderators: Webmaster, Stacy Clifford

User avatar
Nicholas Moore
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 10:06 pm
Location: South West Washington State

Postby Nicholas Moore » Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:29 pm

I don't think anybody has answered the first question in detail yet. But I don't think you can answer it without explaining why militaries train their soldiers the way they do (if you don't care just skip to my last paragraph). I, personally, feel that modern militaries train soldiers in forward hand techniques for at least three reasons.

First the blade is more useful in combat with modern body armor, you can cut through it (modern body armor disperses kinetic force rather than stopping it with a solid wall) and less of the body is protected. Historically you'd mostly have used the point to pierce vulnerable points on metal armor (which is much easier to do with reverse hand techniques), with basically no cutting targets.

Second is cutting (which is easiest in forward grips) gives you more control over the severity of injury (arguably) you can give an opponent. Hence (also arguably) more tactical use on the battlefield.

Third modern tactical webbing places combat knives on the chest so deploying it in forward grip is fastest and easiest.

This all circles around to why militaries don't issue daggers. They are not necessary on a modern battlefield to pierce armor. They are less useful in a utility/survival role than shorter single edge weapons. Good daggers are hard to mass produce. They also should not be made of stainless steel, which creates (possibly) maintenence and reliability problems with them.

Sripol Asanasavest
Posts: 133
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:31 am

Postby Sripol Asanasavest » Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:46 pm

I wonder if they tightly strapped the sheath on the lower back with the handle sticking out to the side and slightly slanted downward would be better in modern day combat, in the case they have to grab it while laying face down.....

william_cain_iii
Posts: 110
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 1:51 pm
Location: goldsboro, north carolina

Postby william_cain_iii » Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:36 am

Well, the same question can be asked, what if they have to grab it while lying on their back? Maybe they should have two knives, one on the chest and one on the back?

You can see how the what-if game gets a bit odd, if not outright silly.

Knives are far more a utility tool than they are a weapon in modern combat. The gun is far more useful for the kinds of things a soldier today is going to need to handle. A standard fireteam in most infantry units (western, at least) has three assault rifles, a light machine gun, a grenade launcher, and possibly several pistols, shotguns, etc to flavor.

The chances of needing a knife (which are literally the same as the chances of every weapon in your fireteam malfunctioning, your unit being out of line of site of other supporting elements in your squad, platoon, etc, AND your enemies resorting to hand to hand for some reason) for hand to hand are comparatively miniscule. Focusing on it makes absolutely zero sense for a modern force.
"The hardest enemy to face is he whose presence you have grown accustomed to."

User avatar
RayMcCullough
Posts: 160
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:05 am
Location: Robertsdale, AL

Postby RayMcCullough » Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:13 pm

Why they teach blade up probably has alot of reasons. I think one of the reasons is the fascination with knife systems that want to cut, cut, cut, then cut somemore instead of grab(to control) and stab to end the fight quickly.

Cutting in a reverse grip is almost entirely useless in a fight. But you can stab much stronger.
Forward grip has more reach(thrusting) and allows for cuts to the face, neck and hands. More options could be another reason.

Both have their uses.
"The Lord is my strenght and my shield, my heart trusteth in Him and I am helped..." Psalms 28:7

"All fencing is done with the aid of God." Doebringer 1389 A.D.

Kier Fomettera
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:35 pm

Postby Kier Fomettera » Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:01 am

There are several martial arts and military systems of knife fighting. Each is usually distinguished by region and culture of their origin, most notable of which is Kali/Eskrima. Proponents of knife fighting systems utilize sparring and drills to hone their skills. This practice is rooted in historical effectiveness where knife fights were more common.

Knife fighting is also emerging and quickly growing as a sport known as knife fencing where simulated knives are used to strike scoring zones for points.
Man is a gaming animal. He must always be trying to get the better in something or other.
fantasy knives

User avatar
Randall Pleasant
Posts: 872
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2002 3:35 pm
Location: Flower Mound, Texas, USA

Postby Randall Pleasant » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:54 am

Please edit you profile to use your real name as is called for in the forum rules.

Thank you,
Ran Pleasant


Return to “Research and Training Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 25 guests

 
 

Note: ARMA - The Association for Renaissance Martial Arts and the ARMA logo are federally registered trademarks, copyright 2001. All rights reserved. No use of the ARMA name or emblem is permitted without authorization. Reproduction of material from this site without written permission of the authors is strictly prohibited. HACA and The Historical Armed Combat Association copyright 1999 by John Clements. All rights reserved. Contents of this site 1999 by ARMA.