New here,got some questions

[Roger Norling]

Thanks Corey for an excellent reply!

Yes, exactly my point. The Renaissance is more of a movement, a shift in how people looked at things. This does not happen simultanously neither in the whole of Europe, nor internally in a single country or even in a city. It is a slow process and conservative forces would strive against it.

Consequently, the German and Scandinavian Renaissance comes quite a bit after the Italian, and in the case of England it doesn't happen until the late 1500s. The first seeds simply took a lot of time to take root and it didn't spread throughout the whole German society at once.

For Germany it is commonly seen as somewhere in the period of 1453-1517 which marks the first printed bible and Luther's postulates in Wittenberg.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Renaissance

But looking at it generously, ie starting in 1453 we find:

ca 1290-1320 MS I.33
1389 Hs.3227a
1400 Codex Wallerstein (one third is likely dating to the early 1400s)
1400 Man Yt Wol
1400 Le Jeu de la Hache
1416-44 Modus Dimicandi (MS G.B.f.18.a)
1424 Hec Sunt Guardiae in Dimicatione Videlicet (MS 01020)
1428 Die Blume des Kampfes (Cod.5278)
1430 Gladiatoria MS KK5013
1435-1440 Gladiatoria MS Germ.Quart.16
1443 Talhoffer
1446-59 Talhoffer MS XIX.17-3

If we on the other hand would chose the other date, then we would have many many more, so just shifting a few decades changes things drastically. That is not really so relevant. More interesting is to see if the masters in any form express Renaissance thinking. That I don't think we see until the late 1400s or early 1500s (and first the printed fencing treatise in 1516), which would then add something like.

1450-1465 Cottonian MS Titus A.xxv
1450s Codex Lew
1450s Talhoffer Fechtbuch
1452 Codex Danzig
1458-1467 Paulus Kal Fechtbuch
1459 Talhoffer Fechtbuch
1460 The Poem of the Pel
1462/1493 Schwabenspiegel Codex
1465-1480 Gladiatoria
1467 Talhoffer Fechtbuch
1470 Paulus Kal Fechtbuch Cgm 1507
1470-1500 Paulus Kal Fechtbuch
1470 Paulus Kal Fechtbuch MS Chart.B.1021
1478 Kunst des Messerfechtens Cod.Pal.germ.430
1479 Codex Folz MS Q566
1480-1500 Ambraser Codex MS KK5342
1480s Paulus Kal Fechtbuch MS KK5126
1490s Gladiatoria MS CL23842
1491 Codex Speyer MS M.I.29
1495 Meister peter falkners kunste Zu Ritterlicher Were MS KK5012
1500 The Poem of the Pel Ashmole MS 45 II
1500 The Poem of the Pel Cottonian MS Titus A.xxiii
1500 Ludwig von Eyb Kriegsbuch MS B.26
1500s Kölner Fechtbuch MS Best.7020 (W*)150
1500s Fechtbuchleinn Cod.Guelf.1074.Novi
1500s Talhoffer Fechtbuch Codex Series Nova 2978
1500s Codex Ringeck MS Dresd.C.487
1506-1511 Marx Turnierbuch Cgm 1930
1506-1514 Das Solothurner Fechtbuch Cod.S.554
1508 Glasgow Fechtbuch MS E.1939.65.341
1510-1520 Goliath MS Germ.Quart.2020
1512 OPLODIDASKALIA sive Armorvm Tractandorvm Meditatio Alberti Dvreri (MS 26-232) MS 26-232
1512 Albrecht Dürers Fechtbuch Sloane MS No.5229
1512 Berlin Sketchbook Libr.Pict.A83
1516 Ergrundung Ritterlicher Kunst der Fechterey MS E.1939.65.357

Also note that several of these treatises are copies of older teachings which are lost. Ringeck, for instance died before 1470, well before the authoring of the MS Dresd.C.487 from ca 1500.

Personally, I think the Marxbrüder and the earlier masters were part of the conservative forces that fought against the reformation. They were devote catholics, often with little formal education. None of them made any printed treatises. The Freyfechter on the other hand printed quite a few treatises, much like the printed bible spread for the enlightening of the masses. This I believe is significant and a clear example of Reformation and Renaissance in the fencing culture.

I am not really trying to say you are wrong here, or that you need to use HEMA as a term instead. But the topic is interesting. It really should have been broken into a separate thread though, and I apologize to the original poster.

[Corey Roberts]

Yeah, we definitely sidetracked this thread. I think we can say that in ARMA RMA/MARE is used to highlight European combative sources from roughly the 15th-17th centuries, from the rest of the wider martial arts of historic European origins which also fall under the term HEMA, while at the same time being included in HEMA. Where we draw the line at what is "Renaissance" versus " late-Medieval" is kind of irrelevant because there is no strict cut off between the two and they often overlapped. Anyway good discussion. Also, glad to have you on here engaging on our forums.
I feel that frequently people outside ARMA feel we are "isolationist" which I don't think is an image we actively try to promote and I would invite others from GHFS or other organizations in the European community you might know to come onto our forums more often. We're glad to have you.

[Roger Norling]

Thanks! And likewise I am glad to be here and would like to invite you all to sometimes share your ideas in writing on HROARR!

We all need to talk more and work together so we use all our resources the best way possible to achieve the results we all struggle for.