WMA Schools

[Jako Valis]

Hi Joachim,

Well that and that we seem to differ a little on standpoints when it comes to sparring. I like to give my opponant a good whack, you don't.

Fair enough. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> We can leave it to that, until we perhaps get a chance to compare methods of free-play physically one day. And at that day, if you insist, I can perhaps ease a bit in controlling my blows and give you a head-ache! (you must know I'm just kidding here.. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />)

On the other points, couldn't really find anything to disagree with. (And you can believe that I really tried! <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

Best regards,
Jako

[Joachim Nilsson]

I believe you. On all accounts! <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

As for the head-ache: I wouldn't have it any other way! <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />

Regards,
Joachim

[Ray Brunk]

This thread began with good intentions. Unfortunately it became pointless after about 20 posts and is borderlining on keyboard warrior crap. These are the type of threads I prefer to avoid but maybe there can be an endgame. To touch base on the original point of this thread......I like ARMA for the fact that we train with all 3 weapons(steel,waster,padded) so that we may train at all speeds and variations.To exclude any method would limit one's full comprehension of their discipline. Each weapon has it's place in our training regiment. As for padded weapons: Every fighting form requires that you include training at full speed to acquire the timing, distance and capability to perform proper technique while "full out". This is my opinion but I believe it is one shared by any individual who has actually fought at a competitive or life threatening level(schoolyard fistfights do not count as there is so rarely any true inherent danger) By training with steel only...one is simply not fighting at full speed or would find themselves in prison by now. The concept of control is nothing more than slowing or pulling an attack and is not full speed. It appears that some feel that training at this "half speed" is preparing them for a true fight. Can one have proper timing, distance &amp; technique when the time comes? Why not use a padded weapon and find out?
My suggestion for those who are posting against this method: Post what state and area you are located. There is a good possibility there is a proficient ARMA scholar in your area. This is not a "challenge" of who can beat who or "I'm gonna kick you #ss" but an opportunity to experience a new idea and test oneself. 99% of ARMA scholars are a great bunch of guys who would welcome a training session with honorable intensions and good spirit.
I have no interest in reading a rebuttal to my post as that is not it's intention. I would be interested to see if any of you are in my region. I would welcome a day of training and sparring with different scholars as we may both learn something. Hell....I'll pickup the lunch tab.
Everyone seems to have stated their opinion in this thread (again &amp; again) Maybe time to move on?

[Jako Valis]

Ray,

The concept of control is nothing more than slowing or pulling an attack and is not full speed.

Wrong. I can cut full-speed without causing an injury. My partner (if not very experienced) can't tell whether I'm cutting hard or soft. The speed is the same.

- Jako

[Ray Brunk]

Wrong. I can cut full-speed without causing an injury. My partner (if not very experienced) can't tell whether I'm cutting hard or soft. The speed is the same.

I asked for no rebuttal.....I got one
I asked for a location .....I got none
I offered a friendly invitation.....not even acknowledgment
The laws of physics have been broken
I would like to learn the ways of an organization that can defy the laws of speed,momentum,inertia and impact.
Until then I'm done.
I think enough has been said

[John_Clements]

I came back to the Forum for a quick look while I am busy moviong in my new house this week, and had to re open this thread to comment in reply to the initial question: You could ask the very same question regarding Asian martial arts styles and schools.

The answer is the same in many fields of endeavor: ego, petty politics, personal insecurities, and envy on the part of some out there. They feel inadequate by comparison or feel the need to compete (commercially or privately). This leads to bad relations, backstabbing, blacklisting, rumor mongering, plagiarism, and other assorted paltry trivialities ----which ARMA prefers to ignore in favor of our own studies. Add to this the role-playing, stunt-fighting display, and sport-contest mentality of much of Medieval and Renaissance historical combat today and it’s a bad mix.

If you don't get to know someone well and train locally with them for a consuiderable time, then a lot of BS develops off the Net too.

Besides, you have to define what you mean by "school"? Is few people getting together once or twice a week at a rented location to study a few manuals and practice some really a "School"?

JC

[John_Clements]

In regard to assertions of “living lineages”….since we have the 19th century sources themselves telling us that these fencing “lineages” long ago lost their connections to the fighting methods we study are far removed from the Renaissance martial arts we study today, what is the point? They fail utterly in their attempts to try to capture some authority over our craft –a craft which they long ago abandoned and have not retained. When you use different tools in a different manner with different rules for a different objective, then you no longer have any connection to the lost skills we study, and no expertise with them or authority over them. Add to this the ignorance they are documented as expressing about Medieval and Renaissance martial arts, and the feebleness by which they demonstrate in our skills, and we can well be dismissive of the hollow claims “living lineages” of historical fencing.

As to your accusation I “stopped posting” in response to your post of edge to edge parrying quotes, on the contrary, they were thoroughly rebutted on record on this very forum. Additionally, not only am I officially on sabbatical at present, I have already written 4 articles on that very subject, so there is little more to add when someone regurgitates misinterpretations that that have already been answered repeatedly. Edge on edge static parrying of cuts in Renaissance fencing is a dead issue --unless one feels the emotional need to keep seeking something somewhere to justify years of trashing their swords with poor technique.

JC

[John_Clements]

Ray, I think I know what Jako means here, and I agree. One can indeed strike very fast with control and have the blow touch lightly or not at all, and the blow may have had great force that was stopped of be thrown softly even though very quickly. This is control. It's done armed or unarmed in the practice of fighting arts all the time.

JC