Vom Tag;"on" the shoulder or "over"

[Jay Vail]

I just received the Wagner and Hand book "Medieval Sword and Shield," their interpretation of the I-33. They interpret two of the wards, "right shoulder" and "left shoulder," as having the blade actually touching the shoulder. These are in addition to von tag, which is held above the head. I compared the wards with the I-33, and the interpretations are arguably correct.
<img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />
Now running for my foxhole . . .

[Webmaster]

I haven't looked at it, but keep in mind that's for a single-handed sword, which has a different dynamic than gripping it with two hands. I think I'd still prefer to keep it cocked a little higher off the shoulder, but it depends on how those wards are intended to be used according to the text. Of course, interpreting the drawings in I-33 also has to be taken with a healthy degree of perspective, given the style.

[Brian Hunt]

Yeah,

the flat perspective used in the illustrations of the I.33 makes interpreting this manual a little more difficult. For instance, you cannot tell by the pictures which foot is the lead foot, and the text doesn't give you any info on this either. You have to rely on a basic understanding of foot work and cutting to try and determine the proper footwork and the correct lead foot for this manual. Also, the figures are depicted as always being on their toes, I would think this means that one should be on the balls of their feet instead of on ones toes like a ballerina, but this is just a form of guesswork based upon my own experience. And some techniques, like the "nucken" (which is german for nod) in the 2nd play, are going to be guess work. It is mentioned only on the one plate of the 2nd play as a technique that happens after the change of the sword. It is a strike out of the over bind from below to the head that seperates the sword and shield, and is followed by a verse about this technique that says "the priest thus nucken(nod), common ones do not but instead shutzen(cover). This could be a true edge strike, a false edge strike, an unterhau, or even possibly an oberhau. It really doesn't tell us much other than the name of the technique, that it is a strike to the head, that common fighters will do a cover at this point, but the priest and his scholars will instead do a nucken, and finally that you should not delay in the execution of this technique or you will end up wrestling. Boy does that leave the door open for all sorts of interpretations. <img src="/forum/images/icons/tongue.gif" alt="" />

just some thoughts on this.

Brian Hunt
GFS

[Joachim Nilsson]

Claus,
I'm still waiting for your literal translation of:

Item, du solst mercken alles das du fechten wilt das trüb mit ganzer störk deines lybs

Regards,

[Hans Heim]

Hi Joachim,

I am not Claus, but perhaps I could add something in.

At first this text has this meaning for me:

To perform every attack, cut, thrust and slice with 100 % of my personal power. But after a some time the advice from a master to strike always like a buffalo, to strike always with 100 %. This seems too easy for a concept. But what is if Lichtenauer thought of a different way of power? In some other places of the poem you get the information to use not only the wrist to cut, you should cut with extended arms, you should use your hip to create power and so on.
Lichtenauer told us to use the body power, to use everything of power you can create out of your body to stop your opponent. This means for a cut: the right angle of the wrist, "gestrackte arm" not to cut with bend arms, to use the hip, to use good grounding (do not step too far), to stand behind your cut, etc..

But perhaps this is only what I want too see from a master of martial arts, to speak in secret poems to use secret power. <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />

For me it is more fun to speak of body power as it is to tell my students to cut with the power of a buffalo. <img src="/forum/images/icons/cool.gif" alt="" />

Servus Hans