Roots of Medieval Myths

[John_Clements]

I,m surprised that nobodies mentioned shakespere, a lot has been caused by his work, if not directly from him, but by people after him who illustrated et cetera. I know there was a post a while ago about a world book picture of a knight being hoisted onto a horse with a crane, and I think it was a shakespere illustration.

Well, when it came to the later 16th century jousting sports, there is some truth to that, as the tilting armor then, extra thick for safety and never intended for combat, was so heavy that a man not in extreme condition relied on hoisting. But this did no apply at all to earlier ages, and this is where the myth applies. Many writers, from Sir Walter Scott to Alexander Dumas perpetuated a view of Medieval arms & armor as heavy and clumsy and artless and this was readily accepted and "confirmed" by then modern fencers who had long abandoned and lost the earlier methods. Tracing all this connection is tedious but worthwhile.

JC

[philippewillaume]

hello, john

I even believe that you can find 16-early 17th text menetioning that the man need to hoisted on his horse or haveing toi use a sacfold to get onbard.
that pluvinel in his horse riding manual (1630)

& pour autant que les hommes, nonobstant toutes ces choses, ne laissaient souvent de se faire mal par les grands coups qu'ils recevaient dans leur habillement de tête, qui mettait souvent leur vie au hasard, on trouva moyen de s'armer contre ces périls ; premièrement d'arrêter la salade, au devant & au derrière de la cuirasse avec deux bons avis : puis un plastron tout d'une pièce, qui couvre le devant de la cuirasse, savoir est tout le côté gauche, & l'épaule jusques au gantelet, le côté droit jusques à l'arrêt, laissant le bras de la lance libre, & la salade jusqu'à l'endroit de la vue. Tellement que l'homme armé en la sorte est hors de ces dangers. Mais aussi qu'il ne peut hausser, baisser, tourner la tête, ni remuer l'épaule gauche ; seulement il lui reste le mouvement depuis le coude pour pouvoir arrêter son cheval : & sert cette sorte d'armes à ce que les coups de lances donnés à l'endroit de la gorge, & au-dessus, ne saurait renverser la tête arrêtée par les deux avis, & par ce plastron que les gendarmes nomment la haute pièce, laquelle garde aussi que les coups portés ne puissent nuire au Chevalier armé de la sorte.

And even thought men, whatever the measures taken, often came to hurt from the blow their received on their head protection, so much that their life was in peril, A way to arm oneself against those danger was devised:
Firstly, stopping the salad from the front and the back with two good avis (screw), then a plastron in one piece covering the all front of the cuirass, that is to say the whole left side and the arm from the shoulder to the gauntlet, the right side stopping at the arrest de cuirass, Leaving the lance arm free and the salad up to the sight. So that a man harnessed in such manner is protected from harm. However he can not raise, lower or turn the head nor can he move his left shoulder, only the left elbow can go back so that the horse can be stopped. It is so that with this type of armour the blow to the throat and above could not tilt the head which is stopped by the two avis and by this plastron “called haute pieces” by the men-at arm wards off all blow by which a knight can come to harm.

LE ROI.
Je crois que l'homme ainsi armé à bien de la peine à monter sur son cheval, & étant dessus à s'en bien aider.

I believe that a man so harnessed will be in great trouble to climb on his horse or ride it.

PLUVINEL.
SIRE, Il lui serait bien difficile, mais en l'armant de la sorte, on a pourvu à cela.

Sire, indeed it would be difficult but in harnessing him in such manner, one has provided to that.

C'est qu'aux triomphes & aux tournois, où il est question de rompre des lances, il y doit avoir aux deux bouts de la lice un petit échafaud de la hauteur de l'étrier du cheval, sur lequel deux ou trois personnes peuvent tenir, savoir est le gendarme, un armurier pour l'armer, & quelqu'autre pour lui aider : étant nécessaire en ces actions périlleuses que l'armurier soit toujours proche, & arme les combattants : afin que rien ne manque, & que tout soit juste.

In tournament, where it is question to break lances, there should be two scaffolds, as high as the stirrups at each end of the lice, on which scaffold can 2 or tree man stand, the men at arm, an armourer to arm him and someone else to help him (the armurier). It is necessary, in such perilous situation that the armourer be close and dress the knight so that all is well and nothing is missing.

Puis l'homme étant armé, on lui amènera son cheval proche de cet échafaud, sur lequel il se peut facilement placer pour commencer sa course :

Being so armed, his horse will be lead to him by the scaffold and hence he can mount easily and start his run.

car votre Majesté remarquera, s'il lui plaît, que pour rompre des lances en lice, il ne faut pas commencer sa carrière en tournant, pour deux raisons : La première, qu'étant pesamment & incommodément armé, le gendarme pourrait se désajuster de sa bonne posture, qui lui porterait grand préjudice au rencontre furieux de son ennemi.

Your highness will have noted, that to break lance at the lice, he should not start with a turn (NDT that what you have to do with the rings) for two reason: the 1st being so heavily and so inconveniently harnessed, the men at arm could lose his good posture which would could cause him great harm when he meet the furious assault of his enemy


I think there is afew illustartion where a gyt is lifte on his horse in such way.