An avg melee fight in a mass battle 12-15th century.

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s_taillebois
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Postby s_taillebois » Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:59 pm

And that unit discipline became more important depending on the fighting philosophy used by a given country. In the hundred years war, it wasn't uncommon for the British to dismount and form a line to support the yeomanry/archers. At Agincourt Henry actually sent his horse to the rear (such as it was). If the British broke lines, it gave the French with their tendancy to emphasize cavalier tactics the ability to win. Which didn't happen all that much, so the discipline of the British line was one of the elements to their success. If they had routinely broken up into random melee the latter part of the hundred years war would have been much shorter.
And pitch battles like Agincourt, weren't the most common form of warfare in the hundred years war. Sieges of towns were important,and to arrange lines to cut off a citadel, and to ensure relief forces were blocked...entailed close discipline amongst units. And when cannon were involved, unit discipline was often what kept British units intact agaisnt the new terror weapon. At the battle of the Herrings, despite the French cannons, and the charge of vengeful Scots, the British didn't break lines.
And the later pike squares were so effective (and survived) because of group discipline...often a bunch of townsmen could beat the cavalier class.
So as noted, the single combat/movie paradigm wasn't that common. Nor is it a condition limited to the west. And when the Japanese first fought the Mongels (in the early Mongel raids into Japan) and tried to use the naming and calling out tradition of the samurai...the Mongels usual response was a hail of arrows and the Parthian shot. ..and resultant dead samurais.
Steven Taillebois

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Derek Gulas
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Postby Derek Gulas » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:06 am

Jeremiah Guffey wrote:Hmm, maybe you misunderstood me. I know about formations and differences of the things like you mention and how it can greatly affect a battle. However what I want to know is that when people weren't in a close formation, when it was literally two lines just clashing into each other and such focused on melee combat with just swords/maces/axes (no polearms/formation stuff, like think of the scene in Braveheart where after the archers and such fire and there's no calvary yet and the two melee lines charge into each other to clash). That sort of a scenario is what I'm interested in finding out about. Once that happens and people are not based on a formation any longer where it's a bit more chaotic, this is where I always pictured it boiling down to more "one vs one" fights for the most part.


Hi Jeremiah. I think I have the simple answer to your question, and it is yes and no. It would probably depend on how evenly matched the different sides are, etc, but I would say that wherever these guys could, they would try to gang up on others. It just makes sense tactically. Especially consider that back in the medieval days, the guy standing next to you might not just be your friend; that guy is likely your brother, cousin, father, etc.

If I were in a battle , and I think my friend is going to get hurt, I'm going to attack that opponent from the side or the back. I'm going to take my war hammer and club that guy in the back of the head because if I don't, it's more likely that that guy next to me won't come back alive. Besides it's easier to kill the bad guys when they're not looking :p
Close combat - bringing us together.

Derek
ARMA, Seattle


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