The ARMA and everyone else.

[Mike Cartier]

Thank you Maestro Hayes

[Sean Hayes]

Thanks for a refreshing post in a nightmare of a thread.

Hi Brian-

Nice to talk with you again. Yes, it's been a nightmare thread just by the page count, but I have to confess I haven't read all of it - nor will I! I have too much training and work to do. But a friend tipped me off that my name was mentioned, and I got curious.

I do think it's important to be up-front with people. Someone can think my interpretation of something is crap, that I'm not worth training with, etc, and that's fine with me - but to be thought of as a liar would be very painful.

Cheers-

Sean

[Francisco Uribe]

But a friend tipped me off that my name was mentioned, and I got curious.

I beg your pardon, if you feel my taking you as an example of classical fencing tradition, offended you in any way.
Not my intention at all to drag your name into this mess, nor put you under any sort of negative light.

I'm pretty sure you do not remember me (we didn't exchange names), but we did have a most interesting conversation 2 years ago while you were here in Lansing, during your I33 demonstration held on sunday afternoon at Lansing community college. Actually it was much more of a technical questioning on my part, and answering from yours. I enjoyed it very much and turned out very pleased with your willingness to explain and demosntrate.

Thanks you for the answers you gave us know. After our conversation I ended up puzzled about why you were part of (and if still were) of the IMAF.

Francisco Uribe

[Sean Hayes]

I beg your pardon, if you feel my taking you as an example of classical fencing tradition, offended you in any way.

No, I wasn't offended at all. It seems like a pretty natural question, given the circumstances. Are you going to be at ISMAC this year?

Sean

[Randall Pleasant]

I do think it's important to be up-front with people. Someone can think my interpretation of something is crap, that I'm not worth training with, etc, and that's fine with me ...

Sean

I was in both of your two I.33 classes at the WMAW 2006 event and I did find you very up front about yourself. Being clear about who you are, what you are, and you are not, made it easy to respect you as a person and as an instructor and made the classes very enjoyable. I look forward to future encounters with you.

[Sean Hayes]

Hi Randall-

Yes, I recall you from Texas. I liked the fluid movement style you had - very easy and natural, and supported the swordwork really well. Hands are important, but there's a lot in the feet. People too often undervalue footwork and footwork drills.

Sean

[Michael Eging]

Sean, thanks for the examples and clarity. I was impressed by the rigor of your work, as others noted as well.

I guess what I got out of your note was the difference between lineage and working knowledge of a combat system. Very enlightening and helpful.

Mike

[Francisco Uribe]

Are you going to be at ISMAC this year?
Sean

Only if there are sesions open to genreal public. I've been saving my monies to attend the international ARMA gathering.

I browsed trough the 2007 ISMAC program, but I did not semm to find information in this regard. Do you happen to know if there will be demostrations or lectures open to anybody?

Thank you.

Francisco

[Michael Navas]

In fear of throwing more fuel to dying flames:

If the maestro agrument is that these guys are cheapening WMA by pretending to be someone they are not, what is the evidence? I don't even think anybody has accused them of such during the course of this thread.

If I was a Kendo Grandmaster, and put on my CV that "I hold the rank of Grandmaster within the Martial Sport Kendo", that could hardly be called using my title in a way I did not deserve. So unless these maestros have actually gone out and made claims to the skills and knowledge of another kind of maestro or Master-at-Arms than those specific to their organization, the arguments leveled at them seems unfair IMO.

It is one thing to be angry about the titles IMAF uses, because they can give a wrongful impressoion of their skills and their heritage, but that is hardly what we are seeing here. I understand Sinclair was involved in some shady business, but not reading italian, I was unable to read it for myself. So what exactly is ARMA's gripe with these guys?

If they didn't actually make claims to the maestro title outside their organization, or simply made it known that they held that title within IMAF, I don't see where they are in the wrong. And that would make this a giant witch-hunt.

[Sean Hayes]

Do you happen to know if there will be demostrations or lectures open to anybody?

I think the tournaments are the only thing open to the public. Details are (probably) on the ISMAC website.

Sean

[Francisco Uribe]

In fear of throwing more fuel to dying flames:

I know it's been a confunsing and weary thread. But those that you cite are exactly some of the reasons why this is not a witch hunt, nor a persecution against such characters.
This is not a simple matter of titles inside of their organizations. In that regard they could do whatever they like.
This matter goes well beyond those boundaries.

What part of the thread makes you think that is not the case?

[Michael Navas]

What part of the thread makes you think that is not the case?

I won't bother looking through these many pages again looking for a specific quote, but when both you and JC accuse these guys of being frauds, there must be a reason for that. Maybe it has been written somewhere, and I just missed it, but in that case, enlighten me:

What did these four maestros do to deserve being called frauds, apart from chosing titles for themselves which happen to mean "uber-master of WMA" in a historical context?

[Brian Hunt]

Hi Sean

Nice to talk with you again.

Ditto on my end.

Yes, it's been a nightmare thread just by the page count, but I have to confess I haven't read all of it - nor will I! I have too much training and work to do.

Don't blame you.

But a friend tipped me off that my name was mentioned, and I got curious.

Yeah, I am afraid I am one of the ones who did so, but I used you and a quote by you as a good example of how upfront things should be when claiming a lineage and the limits of a living lineage in interpreting things before the 18th century (part of which you restated in person).

I do think it's important to be up-front with people. Someone can think my interpretation of something is crap, that I'm not worth training with, etc, and that's fine with me - but to be thought of as a liar would be very painful.

I completly agree.


Some day I will have to make it to an event you are at, I would love to cross blades with you for fun and comparison in the sword and buckler tradition of the I.33. Or maybe I will make it up to your neck of the woods someday.

all the best.

Brian Hunt
GFS

http://www.paulushectormair.com

[Nathan Dexter]

I leave for four days and...

Really, I dont think we have been proving any points that havnt been pointed out before. all sides have kept speaking and speaking. I honestly dont think its possible to resolve anything. I think we just have to agree to disagree.

[Sean Hayes]

Yeah, I am afraid I am one of the ones who did so...

It's fine, really. It just seemed like there were a couple of details left to clarify. We'll definitely have to find a time to train and cross blades.

Sean