Padded swords to be tested

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JeanryChandler
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Re: Padded swords to be tested

Postby JeanryChandler » Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:47 am

I aint sayin a thing <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> lol...

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GaryGrzybek
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Re: Padded swords to be tested

Postby GaryGrzybek » Wed Jan 26, 2005 8:04 am

Just to add, whenever I build a new sparring weapon I coat the entire thing with nylon reinforced tape before adding the duct tape. It really helps lock things together and prolong the life of the piece.
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ColinWheeler
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Re: Padded swords to be tested

Postby ColinWheeler » Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:24 pm

Well, I just got a pair of Jean's Sch 80 longswords, and after several hours of bouting with them, here are my impressions:
1) The weight and balance are very nice. They handle easily and well, a vast improvement over the clunky 2.2 versions I made previously.
2) Edge padding is about right...they hurt, but nobody went home damaged. Even a few shots to tender areas resulted only in determination not to be struck again, not any injury.
3) Thrusting tips could use a little more substance, even if it disturbs the balance a bit. Thrusts, even without a pass, hurt more than a commited cut.
4) The hilts are not too long, but long enough for a comfortable grip with gloves, and long enough for good leverage in those techniques that require it.
5) They flex nicely on the flat, very little along the edge-plane. There is a little on the edge...perhaps squishing the pvc as discussed previously on this thread would be good, although not necessary.
6) The guards are quite durable...they withstood several hard kron maneuvers without damage. The pommels work very well, although more padding would be necessary before pommel strikes would be safe.

All-in-all, I'm quite fond of them. Time will tell about their ultimate durability, but they have already replaced my other padded weapons as first-choice at practice bouts. For those who are still using the "padded 2X4" slat design, I heartly recommend a set of these.

Colin
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JeanryChandler
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Re: Padded swords to be tested

Postby JeanryChandler » Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:13 pm

Thanks for posting that Colin! I'll try to improve the thrusting tips.

Here is a photo of one of the swords I made for colin.

Image

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Rob Schneider
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Summary and questions (LONG post)

Postby Rob Schneider » Wed May 16, 2007 11:15 am

I'm going to build my own padded sword as soon as the foam gets here, and so I'd like to make sure I have the construction of the new type down. The instructions below are a combination of the directions on this thread and the instructions on G. Wade Johnson's page at http://www.anomaly.org/wade/paddedsword/index.html

My questions are in parenthesis throughout the post. I welcome any comments or insights anyone may have. So, without further ado:

The Core:

1. Cut a piece of 3/4" sch. 80 PVC to 48".

2. Heat the PVC in sections and compress it into an oval shape. Be sure to wear insulated gloves when you do this. (What are the approximate dimensions of the cross-section after shaping?) A wire and foil apparatus on an electric grill seems to be ideal for this, though a heat gun will do. (Should I leave the handle portion circular, or should I flatten it as well?)

2.5 Using 3/4 flat 1/8 thick steel cut 10" and 6" on both sides of the hilt and strong to balance and weight. (So the 10" piece goes on one side and the 6" piece goes on the other. Do they go over the cross, or under it? How are they attached to the PVC?)

The Cross

3. Cut another piece of sch. 80 PVC to 11". Hot-punch (using what tool?) a hole in the middle for the core to go through. While the cross is still hot, push the cross into position on the core. Once it has cooled, attach the cross to the core. (There have been concerns about PVC glue weakening the core, should I leave the cross on and apply strapping tape instead? Or would some other glue work here?)

The Pommel

4. Using flat washers and gorilla glue, construct a wheel style pommel and attach it to the sword using duct or strapping tape, or use a metal pipe cap with lots of glue on the threads. (For a safer pommel, could I use a piece of 1/4" iron pipe with plugs at both ends, placed in the handle as a counterweight? The pommel could then be constructed entirely from foam, making pommel strikes much safer.)

The Foam

5. Cut a piece of 1/2" high-impact foam, 3/4"-7/8" wide for the sword edge. You can either cut two pieces that extend the length of the blade or one piece long enough to go all the way from the cross, around the tip and back down to the cross (on the sword edge).
It is better to cut these pieces too long, because the foam should not be under tension when it is over the blade.

6. Apply spray adhesive to the edge of the blade from cross to tip on both edges. (Since this is PVC, would another glue be better?)

7. Place the high-impact foam so that the 1/2" side is against the wood. The foam should stand out 3/4" from the sword blade. Run the foam all the way to the tip. Run the foam around the tip, applying as little tension as possible. Run the foam down the other side to the cross and cut off any excess.

8. Wrap a piece of masking tape once around the blade and foam in two or three places to help hold the foam until the adhesive cures.

Padding the Pommel (Regarding steps 9 - 13, can I use a weight inside the handle for balance and build the pommel entirely out of foam?)

9. Cut another piece of high impact foam 1-3/4" wide and 9.5-10" long. This piece should be wide enough to cover the height of the pipe cap plus about 1/4" on either end. It should be long enough to wrap completely around the circumference of the cap.

10. Cut a square of the high-impact foam 1-3/4" on a side and cut off the corners of this piece to give an octagonal shape.

11. Apply the spray adhesive to the long piece and wrap it around the pipecap. Try not to compress this foam too much.

12. Apply the spray adhesive to the octagon and stick it in the opening at the butt end of the pommel.

13. Use duct tape to cover and protect the foam covering the pommel. You can use the duct tape to shape the pommel, somewhat, by compressing parts of the foam a little.

Blade Padding

14. Cut a piece of open-cell foam 1-1/2" wide and 6" long. (Should I use more closed-cell foam for safety?)

15. Apply the spray adhesive to the high-impact foam at the tip of the blade.

16. Place the open-cell foam so that it stands out 1-1/2" out from the tip of the blade.

17. Use masking tape to hold the open-cell foam in shape around the tip of the blade.

18. Run a 2" wide piece of thin leather or a double thickness of cloth along the edge of the blade.
I've received suggestions to use plastic wrap, like painters tarp, instead of cloth or leather. Stay tuned for possible changes here. (Which material should I use?)

19. Wrap a single layer of masking tape around the blade in a couple of spots to hold it in place. This only serves for temporary holding, the masking tape will not survive for long inside this sword.

20. Cut two pieces of 1/8" thick, 2" wide, self-adhesive pipe insulation long enough to run from the cross to the tip. Cut the corners off the tip end so that they fit on flat of the blade. (Should I use the pipe insulation or more high-density foam here?)

21. Peel the paper backing off the pipe insulation and stick it to the flat of the blade, overlapping the leather/fabric some to help hold it in place. This should be done on each side of the blade.

22. Wrap duct tape lightly in a spiral around the entire blade. Leave approximately 1/4" to 1/2" gap between successive spirals to reduce the weight. Do not wrap the duct tape tightly. We don't want to reduce the cushioning effects of the high-impact foam. I've received suggestions to run the duct tape lengthwise. this reduces the accidental compression of the foam and is supposedly easier to do correctly. (I take it length wise works better when I put the duct tape on?)

23. Wrap duct tape around the ricasso to hold the bottom of the spiral in place, and place a small amount of duct tape over the tip to protect the open-cell foam.

Cloth Covering:
(The instructions say to use sailcloth or denim. Would something like high-denier, slippery nylon more accurately simulate steel-on-steel?)

24. Cut a piece of fabric to serve as a cover for the blade. It should be wide enough to cover both sides of the blade with an overlap that will be the seam. The fabric should be durable, like denim or sailcloth. By convention, the expected color is gray.

25. Pin the fabric inside out over the length of the blade. Mark where the seam will go. The seam should be oriented down one flat of the blade.

26. Remove the fabric from the blade and sew the seam from the cross end to a point 3"-4" from the tip. I sew a second seam outside the first for extra support.

27. Fold the fabric over the tip and pin it so that the tip is covered without a seam actually on the tip. I use three seams running from the long seam to the two edges and the middle, forming a Y bisected by a third line.

28. Sew these seams as you did the long seam.

29. Trim excess fabric from the seams, leaving about 1/4" of fabric so the seam won't unravel.

30. Turn the fabric tube inside out leaving the seams on the inside.

31. Slide the fabric tube over the blade. Secure the tube to the cross with duct tape.
32. Wrap a couple of layers of duct tape around the ricasso to hold the fabric in place.

Finish the Grip

33. Apply tennis racket grip wrap to the grip of the sword.

34. Use a half-width piece of duct tape to secure the two ends of the grip wrap so that they do not come loose.

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Brian Hunt
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Postby Brian Hunt » Wed May 16, 2007 11:01 pm

When you flatten your core, try to make sure that you exactly the same thickness and try to avoid a wavy or bumpy surface, this will lead to your core breaking. Also do not overheat your PVC, if you burn it, it will be brittle.

When building a flattened PVC core, I prefer to insert 1 piece of steel of appropiate length (about 10 to 12 inchs) into the core in order to give a nice balance to my core. I spiral wrap the steel in masking tape, then use some gorilla glue to hold the steel in place. Let this cure for at least 48 hours. After it cures, be sure to spiral wrap the core with one layer of overlapping fiberglass strapping tape, this will further strengthen your core.

A PVC cross will fail over time. I have been using a 4 pieces of 1/4 fiberglass rod about 10-11 inches in length and placed two on each side of the core, one above the other and then used strapping tape to pull the ends of the rod together around the core, then spiral wrapped the cross and held the core in place by x-wrapping the cross to the core.

A well balanced core doesn't need a pommel like counterweight, just use a foam one for looks and safe pommel strikes.

Spray adhesive works fine. I also use some strapping tape to help futher secure the foam. Be carefull of tape, it can add weight very quickly.

I use all close celled foam when constructing a padded sword.

For the flats, I like 1/4 close celled foam and 3/4 inch close celled foam for the edges.

thin leather, or even just strapping tape works well on the edge.

I like a sturdy nylon for the cover of my swords, it does improve the way the blades work in the bind.

Hope this helps.

Brian Hunt
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Postby Rob Schneider » Thu May 17, 2007 7:08 am

Is the spray adhesive the standard 3M stuff used for displays and the like, or something more special purpose? Also, could I insert the metal strip into the core after applying the foam? It seems like it would be easier to get the balance right if I could adjust the placement of the metal strip after the foam is in place.

Edit: added question about metal strip. 5/17/2007

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Will Adamson
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Postby Will Adamson » Thu May 17, 2007 5:23 pm

I've had better luck with double sided tape rather than spray adhesive.
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Rob Schneider
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Postby Rob Schneider » Thu May 17, 2007 9:07 pm

How about Gorilla Glue?
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Will Adamson
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Postby Will Adamson » Fri May 18, 2007 5:23 am

I haven't used the stuff before. I was looking for something a little less messy, so I went with the tape for mounting the foam.

I'm working with the oak slat core though. Not sure if that makes a difference in this regard though.
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Brian Hunt
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Postby Brian Hunt » Fri May 18, 2007 7:22 am

Yes,

I use the 3M adhesive spray. The double sided tape would work nice as well. As I have said before though, be careful with how much tape you use on a padded sword, tapes adds weight quickly. I wouldn't use gorilla glue to attach your foam. This stuff expands and will harden the foam, if it doesn't eat it outright.

Brian Hunt
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