The Greatsword vs. The Spear

[Justin Blackford]

Hello, all.

I know that John Clement's "Medieval Swordsmanship" covered a chapter on the combination of fighting with the longsword/greatsword against polearms, but I am curious as to how many out there have practiced this fight.
Recently, I have been getting so fast with my zornhaus and thrusts from Pflug that my two colleagues in arms no longer have such an easy time in beating me in longsword combat, so we've decided to make things more challenging for me.
Now, we are making regular practice of greatsword(not true two-hander) against a simple thrusting spear. The spear we are using is approx. 8' long and my greatsword is approx. 55" long. With this much difference in reach, it is proving quite a challenge indeed.
I have found that once I am inside the point of the spear, I can try to command the shaft with one hand while trying a slipping strike with the other. This doesn't always work, though. One time, I managed to perform a hanging parry to get inside the point, bound the shaft with a half-sword Pflug and then flipped the blade over in a Mortschlag which struck my opponent in the face. But this particular technique is harder to reach as my opponents are performing slipping thrusts to my hands from below my crossguard or from above the guard to my chest and face. I can bind and parry with the guard, but it's hard trying to get a good sense of timing from a thrust that is being sent so fast.
Has anyone encountered similar occurrences?

Justin

[Allen Johnson]

usually when confronted with a spear and longsword, I like to go to the half sword. Im quicker with and displacement I might make and my hand will still be ready to wrap or grab the pole. but that just may be me <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

[SzabolcsWaldmann]

When I have to fight a spear, I just focus, look, and think about the body of my enemy, not his weapon. You have to know, that your opponent is not the spear, but the man (or girl) wielding it. You are, in fact, not that far away from him.

Szab

[JeanryChandler]

Use Krumphau and other methods to 'soft bind' the spear and slow it down. If possible you can grab the haft. Either way step in and strike or rush to strike and pass through, or rush to grapple.

Jeanry

[Matt Bryant]

I have found that it is good to do half-swording in this instance for the reasons stated by Allen. The slip strikes are very quick and hard to judge, but going off line and closing very quickly should help.

[Shane Smith]

I likewise will default to halfswording in most cases.

[JeanryChandler]

I actually think going to half-sword against the spear is counterproductive except after a successful 'soft' bind

[David_Knight]

Mair does not instruct one to half-sword against the spear. Rather, he focuses on displacing the spearhead and moving past it to counterstrike. Remember, the shaft is not a blade, so once one closes that distance, the spearman will be severely limited in his offensive movements. But at the same time, the length of the shaft is great enough that one need's the full length of one's sword to strike the opponent quickly.

Extensive staff sparring in ARMA SoFL has shown that it is extremely difficult to close with a reasonably competent polearm-wielding enemy. You basically have to charge him (Mair uses the Latin term incursio, "onrush, raid, incursion"), and even then he has a number of counters at his disposal using the back point.

Or glorious ringen. <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Stacy Clifford]

I like to half-sword from sort of a short archer/hanging guard with at least a foot of blade in front of my hand which I can use to aggressively fish for the tip of the spear and quickly sweep aside incoming thrusts. Once you catch up the spear with the tip of your sword your hand can quickly disengage and grab or displace and allow you to close with a one-handed blow. I've had better luck with this technique than anything else I've tried, though it still isn't perfect.

[JeanryChandler]

What we have learned to do is somewhat similar to this, except we don't start in half sword... you need all your reach. Usually start in an Ox or Plow guard, (sometimes Vom Tag but it's harder to judge the safe distance that way) then counterstrike as they thrust, usually with a Krumphau.

This seems to help create a 'soft bind' result. By this I mean slowing their weapon down right at the extent of their slip thrust when they have the least control over it, but not a hard beat that they can take momentum from to shift into another guard, a 'soft' bind which just slows them down and mushes their control.. Then either charge forward and cut (often their hand or arm which is usually exposed) and / or grab the haft of their weapon with one hand and step forward and cut or thrust.

I'll try to get some video of this next week to show y'all, though the guys we used to train against who were really good slip-thrust staff guys probably wont be available, as they are members of another group.

JR

[Lance Chan]

Count me as another half sword guy when going against polearms here. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

[JeanryChandler]

Count me as another half sword guy when going against polearms here.

You seem to have a rather hard time using your longsword against polearms in your movie clips, at least the ones I've seen...

JR

[Jake_Norwood]

I'm a pflug-and-displace guy. And at the gathering in 2003 against Gene and Tim, amongst others, I never fell prey to the spear.

(as if that was definitive proof, LOL).

Jake

[Justin Blackford]

Yes, absetzen from Pflug has proven effective, although it is ultimately a matter of hitting your opponent before he withdraws and slip-thrusts again.
My Zornhaus are getting very fast and powerful, but I can't do it one-handed when I have grasped the shaft of the spear and am trying for my opponent. But, since thrusts are just plain faster than cuts, I think that I'll start trying some more of this absetzen from Pflug and following up with a one-handed bind and a slip thrust of my own.
I've also heard of a Meyer move called a "kurtzhau" which looks like a strike I have tried before, although I can't seem to do this correctly. How exactly does one use this against a polearm?

Justin

[Allen Johnson]

In my humble opinion, reach matters very little here- you arent going to hit HIM. I would argue that a displacement in the half sword is much faster than any normal gripped strike. I think we can mostly agree that the most important element of defeating a pole arm is controling or siezing the haft, and closing quickly. If I do a hard strike to the pole from any of the guards there is going to be a 'bounce'- causing the pole to be thrown in a different direction. At this point you would have to rush in fast and hope he dosent slip back and prehaps disengage under or over your sword to attack again or you have to chase the bounced haft, hopefully siezing or controling it before he has a chance to bring it back on you. When I do the halfsword displacement, I don't get the same 'bounce'- if any at all. The haft is very close to my blade and thus my quickly grasping hands. There is just less movement for me to do and less time for the pole arm bearer to react in. my two cents...