counter against a counter involving the zwerchhau

[Dylan palmer]

ok heres the scenario my adversary stands in a solid vom tag me also in a vom tag over my right shoulder(not a zornhut) so i strike a zwerchhau agaist his left side and he swiftly stikes my zwerch down with a flat zornhau what now?, i fond i didnt know the anwser to this while doing my solo drills today can someone provide some insight to this?

(p.s) ill go over golaith and ringeck once more.

[Randall Pleasant]

Dylan

Goliath says to counter a Zwerch by cutting an Oberhau onto the flat of the adversary's blade (your long edge hitting his upper flat). This displacement takes the power out of the cut and catches the blade on your guard. If the adversary counters by throwing another Zwerch to your other side then you counter by throwing a Zwerch under his Zwerch, resulting in your blade hitting him and his blade hitting your upper flat. Note that during the displacement of his first Zwerch his blade was knocked down, thus his counter Zwerch will tend to take a high path. On the other hand, since you came down on top of his first Zwerch your counter Zwerch (to his second Zwerch) will tend to take a low path, which allows your blade to go under this blade. Of course, this all works best with good foot work!

If you have David Lindholm's book, <u>Knightly Art of the Longsword</u>, take a look at page 200. In Christian Tobler's first book, <u>Secrets of German Medieval Swordsmanship</u>, these techniques are shown on pages 178 and 179. In Tobler's second book, <u>Fighting with the German Longsword</u>, take a look at page 125.

Given the above, if you throw a Zwerch at your adversary and he displaces it by cutting an Oberhau down onto the upper flat of your blade do not throw another Zwerch to the other side since a second Zwerch can be easily countered. Instead, Zucken (twitch) as soon as your blade is knocked down, letting your point hang almost completely down and then pulling your pomel forward so as to hit him on the head with your long edge. This Zucken is very quick compared to attempting to throw a second Zwerch.

[JeffGentry]

Hey Dylan

Alot of the answer to your question is dependant on whether your opponent is weak or hard at the bind (Fuhlen) this will be what indicate's how you need to move.

I do not think there is one answer, some technique's will be better than other's, it will depend on many factor's unique to that encounter, the more you do solo drill's and spar the more option's you will discover because every situatiuon and opponent are diffrent, so sometime's little adjustment will have to be made for the opponent, his weapon, the ground you are on, Goliath and Ringeck give good option's, I think if you read what they say it will be a good starting point.

I like to try diffrent little scenario's in my flourysh's sometime's, like you said above think of a scenario and then try to flourysh and run some counter's to the situation, i think it does help to try diffrent option's like this when i flourysh.

Jeff

[Matt Bryant]

I like Ran's quick twitch. Another option is to invert and step in quickly bringing your pommel into his face.

Fuhlen is always what you need to use when acting Indes like this, but I think that the opponent is generaly going to be hard in the bind when such a beating strike lands.

[philippewillaume]

Hello
You need to find out if he is strong or weak and do the approtiate techniques
There is a fair amount
If he is strong come back over to strike his right or swerch on the others side behind his sword
Of he is weak end up with the blade at his throat.

That being said the zhorn is supposed to break the krump.
If he zornh you properly, he is going to stick hip point in your face/belly.
This is potentially very dangerous because he will get access to your outward side as he collapse your tip forcing you take a sort of ox but with tip toward the ground
If that happens you are pretty much buggered, as has a great advantage in the thrust and winding that will follow.

phil

[Jake_Norwood]

If his point is off line (and it will be), tackle him. Really.

Jake