Fighting A mob??

For Historical European Fighting Arts, Weaponry, & Armor

Moderators: Webmaster, Stacy Clifford

User avatar
JeffreyHendricks
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:07 pm
Location: East texas
Contact:

Fighting A mob??

Postby JeffreyHendricks » Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:57 am

I had no idea how to name the title. <img src="/forum/images/icons/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Anyways, is there a book or different technique(with any weapon) on how to fight against more than one person at a time? I've done that a few times (fought two people at once)and its pretty tricky and tiring!

Jeffrey
Jeffrey
Forum: OLDE TYME SPORTS

User avatar
Jake_Norwood
Posts: 913
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2002 11:46 am
Location: Clarksville, TN

Re: Fighting A mob??

Postby Jake_Norwood » Sun Mar 12, 2006 12:44 pm

John C. has written an article or two about it (they're on the Armaria, I believe), but there is also a little bit of historical reference to this sort of thing. Outside of a number of anecdotes of historical engagements (found on the articles page), here's what Hanko Doebringer had to say (Lindholm Translation, also available on this site):

"Do not be rash;
do not first do four or six. With your overconfi-
dence be moderate, which is good for you.
He is a brave man who fights his own weaknesses.
It is no shame to flee when four or
six (foes) are at hand."

and

"Which I want to say now,
no man should be so stupid
that his own fencing brings him injury.
If you want to beat five or six men,
then you will often get badly hurt
since you can’t defend against every strike
directed against you,
and you will then be subjected to ridicule
and scorn.
You little fool who wanted to be the best,
see what happened."

and

"This is not great courage,
but great stupidity to try for four or six [opponents];
this will become clear to you that you will
get the very opposite
just as if you had bought it.
It is better to hide away in a bed
than to display such great clumsiness.
But it happens that you may defend against
four or six,
if you are careful, and if you behave chivalrously
and you part well from them
then you will defend well against all."

and

"This is regarding the iron gate [Eyserynen
pforten]
Here rightly begins
the very best fencing
by the aforesaid master know,
this I tell you that
it is called the iron gate [Eyseryne pforte],
which you will understand soon.
If you are set upon
by four or six peasants,
then place either foot forward
and with the gate you will create a shield
by placing the point towards the ground.
Hear how you should do this,
place yourself so that they are right in front
of you
and that no one can get in behind you.
Now hear what you should do,
when they strike or thrust at you,
set them aside [Abesetzen]
with strength going up from the ground
and then you will shame them well.
Then do the peacock’s tail [Pfobenczagel]
against them,
and then no one can remain in front of
you.
Strike below while defending and deflecting
well.
Strike briskly with the changing strike
[Wechselhewen]
and use the Weed Hoe [Krawthacken] as
well,
and then you will truly press them.
But I do advice everybody not to
remain standing right in front of him (the
opponent)
unless you want to be a looser, but someone
who hits.
Against someone who comes at you from
the left side,
step towards him quickly
and strike at him
so that he cannot deflect [Abelecken]
and if they keep on coming as before,
then do as before and you will not fail.
Strike one after the other,
just make sure that they can’t get at you
all at once,
and then you will be without danger.
As you have understood from the foreword
it is possible for a man to stand against four
or six that wants to win.
That is why I advice you to follow my
teachings,
meaning that you quickly attack the ones
on the outer ends
before the other turns against you,
then they will have to turn after you since
you are leading.
Then you can well notice
when it is or is not safe to move away from
the opponent
and then leap away from him as I say.
There is no hurt or disgrace to run away
from four or six.
And when you turn and start to run away
from him,
then throw your sword across and run as
fast as you can.
Then as one who thinks that he has caught
up with you
and has closed with you (catching up from
behind, my addition),
then leap to the side of the road
and if he is running quickly after you,
then he will be moving too fast to control
himself
and you can strike him down as you wish."


See, easy.

1) Don't do it.
2) Don't do it, idiot
3) But if you have to do it, use the Iron Gate and keep them stacked
4) If it goes badly it's okay to run away
5) When you run away it's okay to throw your sword, screaming like a girl, let the fastest guy catch you, and then kill him with the aforementioned thrown sword.

See, easy!

Jake
Sen. Free Scholar
ARMA Deputy Director

User avatar
Josh Welsh
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:33 pm
Location: Bettendorf, IA USA

Re: Fighting A mob??

Postby Josh Welsh » Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:36 pm

This does make sense! One of the fundamental aspects of western martial arts IS do whatever possible to NOT die, and kill your opponent by any means. Well, if your obviously faced with an impossible situation, running is often your best option. You can't always win, and if I know I can't beet 'em, I'd beat it! Better to live to fight another day.

Then again, I'm sure there are situations where fighting multiple opponents is practicle, or even possible to avoid. Like if you are cornered, or if you happen to be wearing plate armour, and you are fighting unarmoured foes. So, in practice, it may not be a bad idea to learn what it's like, what works and what doesn't, when fighting a group. But I would advise against it, unless you are are at least moderately proficent at dueling one on one.
"Fencing with a sword is nothing other than discipline...."

Joachim Myere 1570

User avatar
Richard Strey
Posts: 122
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2002 8:59 am
Location: Cologne, Germany

Re: Fighting A mob??

Postby Richard Strey » Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:10 pm

Jake wrote:
"And when you turn and start to run away from him,
then throw your sword across and run as fast as you can."
Original:
"wenne du denne begynnest czu lawfen und von in springest / so wirf deyn swert dy twere hinden ober dyn hawpt sere und lawf was du gelawfen magst"
My translation:
"When you start to run and jump from him / throw your sword across your back over your head and run as you can"

What seems to be proposed here is to disengage with a leap and perform what essentially amounts to a horizontal ("twere") "posta di donna" above the back of your head, providing cover from any descending cuts coming after you. Useful, since ascending cuts have lesser reach and a timing disadvantage, anyway.
So, Jake, "running like a girl" wasn't that far off the mark. And turning around and cutting down the rushing opponent seems much easier, seeing how you throw your sword across in a shielding motion and not throw it away. <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" /> Should we tell those Fiore-lovers their posta di donna is actually the ward of the running girl?

User avatar
JeffGentry
Posts: 1089
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 8:35 am
Location: Columbus Ohio

Re: Fighting A mob??

Postby JeffGentry » Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:43 pm

Can I copy write the "ward of the running girl". <img src="/forum/images/icons/blush.gif" alt="" />


Jeff
Semper Fidelis

Usque ad Finem

Grace, Focus, Fluidity

User avatar
Jake_Norwood
Posts: 913
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2002 11:46 am
Location: Clarksville, TN

Re: Fighting A mob??

Postby Jake_Norwood » Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:46 pm

Richard--

Good stuff, man! So it's more of a run and cover your head with your sword, then as the followers string out wheel about and wail on one...that makes more sense to me than lobbing your sword across the field then running to it.

(Though that did sound like fun).

Jake
Sen. Free Scholar

ARMA Deputy Director


Return to “Research and Training Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests

 
 

Note: ARMA - The Association for Renaissance Martial Arts and the ARMA logo are federally registered trademarks, copyright 2001. All rights reserved. No use of the ARMA name or emblem is permitted without authorization. Reproduction of material from this site without written permission of the authors is strictly prohibited. HACA and The Historical Armed Combat Association copyright 1999 by John Clements. All rights reserved. Contents of this site 1999 by ARMA.