Transitioning or Striking from the Ochs

[J. Harvey]

I just started practicing -began trying to strike and transition from the five basic guards. They all seem very natural and easy to move from - except the Ochs - it feels akward and I can't seem to do anything but a whimpy short thrust. Should I try transitioning to another guard? Perhaps use more dynamic footwork and bend my torso more ?Or is it just a hard position to feel comfortable with? I know it's hard to say without seeing what I am doing, but I am trying to watch my form.

[Stacy Clifford]

You might find some helpful info in this thread for starters:

http://www.thearma.org/forum/viewtopic. ... highlight=

[J. Harvey]

Thanks for the reply Stacy,
At first didn't get it as the video didn't really show the Oches, but I read between the lines and got what you meant, as well as reviewing John's descriptions in his books. The eight cut exercise really brought home what to do (once I got to it).
Jory F. Harvey

[Greg Coffman]

Ochs is difficult for beginners. I remember thinking the same thing, 'what in the world is this guard for?,' when I was just starting out. But, everything you can do from vom tag you can also do from ochs. You can cut zornhau, zwerchau, sheitelhau, shielhau, and krumphau. If you are holding your ochs correctly, long edge above and away, short edge below and pointint towards you, then you can easily make cuts with the short edge: zwerchau, krumphau, shielhau. Or you can turn the sword in your hands while making a cut to bring your long edge online for a zornhau or sheitelhau. I've actually had luck with a very quick left zornhau, too. Once you learn how to do all those things then you will see the inherent advantages of ochs.

But ochs is also a key part of bindin, making up a portion of the upper hangings that Ringeck talks about. Basically, whenever the swords are pressed together in a bind, you hold the sword in some position. Generally, you hold the sword high or low. The high bind is called the upper hanging. Ochs is often one of the positions for upper hanging. [Of course, given that you and your opponent are both striking from your right shoulders, left ochs will be a bit more used than right ochs.] Therefore, a portion of the utility of ochs is not just what you can throw from that guard in the pre-fight (zufechten) but how that position gives you advantageous leverages and options in the bind.

[J. Harvey]

Thanks Greg,
I'll try some of that out- still have to reference which "hau" is which, but nice to know I'm not the only one that had this trouble.
Jory F. Harvey