Reaction to a non-lethal hit?

For Historical European Fighting Arts, Weaponry, & Armor

Moderators: Webmaster, Stacy Clifford

Benedict Haefeli
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:37 pm

Reaction to a non-lethal hit?

Postby Benedict Haefeli » Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:17 am

Let's assume the situation of two combatants with decent armor, like maile, and longswords.

One of the combatants manages to get a sideways cut in to the hip or the ribcage. I would assume the hit hurts, but since we're not talking heavy weaponry here like an axe the padding should be able to prevent broken bones. Depending on the situation, the force of impact might bring the fighter of balance, or it might not. In the case that it doesn't, I wonder what the most proper reaction would be.

Jumping back to gather your senses and prepare for the next pass would seem like a decent option, but I guess it can be expected that the opponent will press on and throw his next blow pretty fast.

On the other hand, it might be a good moment to strike: the opponents weapon is out of the way for a moment, he is in good striking distance, so the situation seems good to bring in a better hit than he did.

Or might it be safer for the hit opponent to press in and close the distance, where he'll probably start to wrestle, but at least can assume that he won't take another blow immediately?

Of course it all depends on how much pain the blow caused (but I would expect expierienced fighters to be quite capable of ignoring a pretty large amount of momentary pain), the awareness and reaction time, so the question is pretty general.

I guess I should reformulate the question from the POV of the one striking the blow: How dangerous is the situation for him? Is it dangerous enough that it would be sensible to immediately leap into guard, or is a counter-attack in that moment unlikely enough to immediately launch a follow-up (assuming that the hit opponent isn't thrown off balance, in the other case the answer seems pretty obvious). Are there known instances that fighters deliberately took a blow on their armor in order to get into a better position for an immediate counter-attack?

Clint_Schaaf
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:44 pm
Location: Wyoming

Postby Clint_Schaaf » Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:10 am

That question, to me, seems dependent on whether the man struck can strike back with an effective blow. If he can strike back effectively he probably should. If he can't, the attacker should probably keep the offensive going. For the man who struck the blow, if he is vulnerable to a counter attack, retreating may be too slow. Closing distance and wrestling may be a better idea, especially if his opponent is injured. Of course, this is a lot of assuming. In reality, the guy who reacts fastest will probably have the best outcome. Speed kills.

User avatar
Richard Strey
Posts: 122
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2002 8:59 am
Location: Cologne, Germany

Postby Richard Strey » Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:52 am

It seems to me that this might be the situation where it pays off to have studied Zufechten, Krieg and Abzug, eh?

If you hit him and you have the initiative, keep attacking. The masters say so. If you deal a second blow and you sense that he can hit you before it will land, you have lost the initiative on grounds of him acting indes. So you break off your attack and deal with his. The masters tell you to do this, as well.

But, if I hit someone and bury my blade in deep in their torso, I'll gladly remove it in the same motion, shield myself while gaining distance (Abzug with a Schirmschlag) and watch them die. Why risk anything?

Jonathan Hill
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:01 pm

Postby Jonathan Hill » Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:06 pm

I’d look at it even simpler than that. What was the guy who got hit doing at that moment? Was he in the middle of an attack, was he retreating, was he trying to guard it and failed? His window of opportunity to do anything is very small as the guy who hit him isn’t going to drop his guard and start to celebrate. He will complete his action and continue the fight. He may be able to alter his action in accordance to the hit but not much else will happen.

Example, a recent fight of mine, my opponent was closing on me with intent to shove me off balance. I landed a sotani to the kidneys that was a bit harder than it needed to be. Instead of a shove I got punched in the face.

Benedict Haefeli
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:37 pm

Postby Benedict Haefeli » Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:12 am

So, more or less it means "if possible, carry on as if nothing had happened". Thanks for the answers!


Return to “Research and Training Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests

 
 

Note: ARMA - The Association for Renaissance Martial Arts and the ARMA logo are federally registered trademarks, copyright 2001. All rights reserved. No use of the ARMA name or emblem is permitted without authorization. Reproduction of material from this site without written permission of the authors is strictly prohibited. HACA and The Historical Armed Combat Association copyright 1999 by John Clements. All rights reserved. Contents of this site 1999 by ARMA.