Help looking for a good waster sword.

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Greg Coffman
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Postby Greg Coffman » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:40 am

Tim Gallagher wrote:Dakota, I've just realised that you are 14, so an Albion Meyer is probably a little unwieldy for you.


He'll grow.

If you want a feder, you can't get any better than an Albion. Second choice would be a CAS/Hanwei Practical Bastard Sword. They sell on amazon.com for about the same price as 2 wasters.

If you want a waster, you can't get any better than NSA (my preference) or Raven Studios...unless you make one yourself. But for fifty bucks...I don't know a good option that I'd recommend.
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Dakota Brown
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Postby Dakota Brown » Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:22 pm

william_cain_iii wrote:They're pretty long, with a very wide cross.

And to be honest, at 500 dollars, they're a bit of an odd option to begin with.


well im 5,9 and 500 dollars i could get but not rite now.

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Postby Stacy Clifford » Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:33 pm

Dakota Brown wrote:well im 5,9 and 500 dollars i could get but not rite now.


You'll be fine then, get whatever you prefer. Besides, I'm not a big guy (5' 6") and I can handle a greatsword with no trouble, you just have to develop the muscle for it. Lutel also makes excellent blunts about $100 cheaper than Albion ($375-$450 range), but shipping from Europe pretty much makes up that price difference.
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Ryszard Narkiewicz
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Postby Ryszard Narkiewicz » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:41 pm

Since this is my first post. Let me introduce myself.
The name's Richard, I'm from Vilnius region of Lithuania. I'm Polish in nationality. Have a big interest in military, fantasy, longsword fencing, bushcrafting, larping and stuff close to it. Hoping to find here people knowing this rma well.
Since this topic is about wasters, can I ask you guys about two handed sword wasters? I saw the manual how to choose a good waster size: which are perfect, good and bad sizes. But I still found no information about two hander wasters. Which size could be good for me? Will size of my height be perfect size for a two hander waster for me, or should I take the longsword sizing instead? Any help please?

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Postby Stacy Clifford » Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:10 pm

Welcome Ryszard,

The standard recommendation that comes from one of the manuals is that the sword should come up to your armpit, but on really tall people that's no longer a longsword, it's a greatsword. Although that may work for you, in longsword practice with others the extra length and mass of your sword over theirs changes the dynamics of learning basic counters and techniques. Speaking for the type of training we start new people with in ARMA, standard longsword waster lengths tend to run between 48-52 inches, though some are as short as 44. I would recommend staying within this range when getting started. I'm 5 ft. 6 in. tall and can comfortably use a 52 inch New Sterling Arms waster or even a larger greatsword, but until you develop your control muscles you might want to start with something a little shorter unless you are very tall. You should be able to stand in the alber guard with the sword drooping at about a 45 degree angle in front of you without the tip touching the ground, and be able to make a vertical cut from over the head to that position and stop the sword short of the ground as far as weight is concerned.
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Postby Ryszard Narkiewicz » Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:31 pm

Stacy, so you mean that the two handed great sword (like here) waster should come up to my armpit, just like longsword, right? And after some good time of training I can make/get a longer waster, with length like on this pic?
And speaking of the two hander greatswords - what's the ideal length of those? I'm sorry if I'm asking too many questions, it's just very little I've found about those two-handers.

Add: I've made some calculations this morning. Well for almost 6ft. tall european, like me, the length from the ground to my armpit is about 137cm (~54 in) - that's a bit scarry "ideal" size for me. So after some practice in the end I'll have to make a waster that long?
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Postby Stacy Clifford » Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:21 pm

Your sword can be whatever length you are comfortable fighting with, you don't have to have a certain length sword to match your height, it's just a general recommendation the masters give to use as a guide. It's more important to go by your level of skill and what handling qualities you prefer in a sword. Greatswords have more power, leverage and reach than a longsword, but aren't as quick and agile. If you have the skill to handle both, then it's simply a choice of what you prefer. Learn with a standard tool first, then customize to your liking later. By the way, there's really no standard length range for a "greatsword" that I know of, it's kind of a catch-all term for anything bigger than a longsword but smaller than a zweihander.
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Ryszard Narkiewicz
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Postby Ryszard Narkiewicz » Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:26 pm

Perhaps. Or maybe, like John stated in his book un article about two-handers, it needs to be studied more. But, thanks for the tip Stacy. I'll definetly keep that in mind. :wink:
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Postby william_cain_iii » Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:29 pm

Compounding it, the first longswords WERE greatswords. Great sword of war, I believe, the type XIIa and XIIIa things.

Yet these aren't quite as long as some longswords (compare the dimensions of Albion's Baron to Albion's Munich).

Just an interesting thing. Great Sword is really a term that has no fixed meaning.
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Greg Coffman
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Postby Greg Coffman » Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:05 pm

Stacy, so you mean that the two handed great sword (like here) waster should come up to my armpit, just like longsword, right? And after some good time of training I can make/get a longer waster, with length like on this pic ?


The swords in the article and the sword in the woodcut illustration are all zweihanders. The historical name for those swords would be biddenhander (both-hands) or doppelhander (double hands). Since the term 'greatsword' is ill defined, it is not wrong to refer to those swords as 'greatswords.' But I usually use the term 'greatsword' to mean either the earlier war swords like the Oakeshott XIIa and XIIIb or the 15th and 16th century swords which bridge the spectrum between longsword and true zweihander.

The zweihander is really a different weapon than longswords or the larger intermediate greatswords. It handles differently, it fights differently. It is comparable to a pike or halberd and would be used alongside those weapons while a longsword or one-hander was worn on the hip. It's not so much that you start out with a longsword, and gradually move up to bigger and bigger swords. In ARMA, we start with the longsword because that is the central weapon of the fighting arts of the Renaissance until the rapier took over. As we progress, we continue to study the longsword but branch out and study other weapons as well such as dagger, staff, sword and buckler, etc. Several of us study zweihanders as well.

But if you are interested in larger swords, intermediate greatswords work fine with the longsword material. The fechtbuch, Goliath, takes traditional longsword text and pairs it with very large greatswords. So we know that people practiced the longsword teachings with larger swords too.
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Ryszard Narkiewicz
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Postby Ryszard Narkiewicz » Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:23 pm

Greg Coffman wrote:Several of us study zweihanders as well.

Well maybe they found out the bad, good and ideal sizes for zweihanders? Could you ask them? Cause, I suppose, manuals like this one are only about one and half swords only. :?
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Postby Greg Coffman » Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:00 pm

Ryszard Narkiewicz wrote:
Greg Coffman wrote:Several of us study zweihanders as well.

Well maybe they found out the bad, good and ideal sizes for zweihanders? Could you ask them? Cause, I suppose, manuals like this one are only about one and half swords only. :?


There's not a "bad, good, and ideal" size for either a longsword or a zweihander. The historical evidence shows a range of sizes. As long as the sword is well balanced, then it's a good weapon. Some people prefer longer longswords, some people prefer shorter. Zweihanders range from several inches taller than the user to a foot shorter. Find a weapon that suits you.

My preference is for a zweihander that is shorter than me.
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