Salutations from Argentina - And a couple of questions!

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Santiago Agustin Perez
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Salutations from Argentina - And a couple of questions!

Postby Santiago Agustin Perez » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:34 pm

Hello everybody, I'm Santiago from Argentina.

I've recently picked up an interest for historical fencing, in particular the german and italian school of longsword fencing.

Unfortunately for me, there are no school or congregations of renaissance martial arts in my country, so my plan is to learn by myself from the resources available in this webpage and of course the manuals of the masters of old.

Is being self taught an effective way to learn? I have a sparring partner who is even more exited than me, but before taking the plunge into buying the equipment needed to parry we need to know that we are not embarking upon a fool's errand.

Thank you for your time.

Santiago.

Santiago Agustin Perez
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Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:30 pm

Postby Santiago Agustin Perez » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:01 pm

Almost forgot, if you have any book recommendations please say so. I'm currently trying to obtain Sigmund Ringeck's Knightly Art of the Longsword.

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JeremyDillon
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Postby JeremyDillon » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:02 pm

Kaervas wrote:Almost forgot, if you have any book recommendations please say so. I'm currently trying to obtain Sigmund Ringeck's Knightly Art of the Longsword.


That's a great book to start from. At least it was for me. Very clearly illustrated and explained. It's pretty tough to get a good foundation on your own. The best advice I can give, from personal experience, is to start your own group. Find a buddy (or two or three: the more the merrier) and practice together. You'll have a much more rewarding practice, even if you don't have access to an already established group.

Santiago Agustin Perez
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Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:30 pm

Postby Santiago Agustin Perez » Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:16 am

JeremyDillon wrote:
Kaervas wrote:Almost forgot, if you have any book recommendations please say so. I'm currently trying to obtain Sigmund Ringeck's Knightly Art of the Longsword.


That's a great book to start from. At least it was for me. Very clearly illustrated and explained. It's pretty tough to get a good foundation on your own. The best advice I can give, from personal experience, is to start your own group. Find a buddy (or two or three: the more the merrier) and practice together. You'll have a much more rewarding practice, even if you don't have access to an already established group.


Thanks we are two people currently, hopefully with time that number will grow. :D

Andrew F Ulrich
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Postby Andrew F Ulrich » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:06 am

Hi Santiago,

Do you ever go to Chile? There's a provisional group over there that I would highly recommend visiting. Check out:
http://www.thearma.org/Practice/partners.htm
for more info. It might be worth your while to visit that group at least once in order to get some foundational skills.

Being self-taught is a valid venture, and ARMA itself has many solo members throughout the U.S., though these solo members usually are able to occasionally travel to a study group or event in order to get personal instruction.

Lindholm's Ringeck book is a good resource, but many of his interpretations are outdated and many of the images have inaccuracies or are completely in error. I would recommend comparing the footwork and crossings you see in Joachim Meyer or P.H. Mair with the illustrations you see in Lindholm's book, and you might be able to notice some of the inaccuracies.

Oh, and a moderator will soon ask you to please change your forum username to your first and last name as per the rules, so you might want to go ahead and do that.

Andrew Ulrich
ARMA St. Louis

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Webmaster
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Postby Webmaster » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:41 am

Andrew F Ulrich wrote:Oh, and a moderator will soon ask you to please change your forum username to your first and last name as per the rules, so you might want to go ahead and do that.


Yes please.
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Stacy Clifford
ARMA Webmaster

Santiago Agustin Perez
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Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:30 pm

Postby Santiago Agustin Perez » Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:01 pm

I don't travel to Chile that often, unfortunately. But it's good to know that there is a group in a bordering country.

If the book is outdated, would you care to recommend one that is more up to date and newbie friendly? Im a little lost in all the options, this is a new world to me. :D

And thanks once again.

EDIT: Almost forgot, available in my university is a fencing class, the one that is used in the olympics. Will that be a good ground to start if I want to learn longsword fencing?

Andrew F Ulrich
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Location: St. Louis, MO

Postby Andrew F Ulrich » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:05 am

Olympic fencing is not a very good foundation for realistic sword fighting. The footwork is too linear, the advance-retreat rule is unrealistic, and the 'swords' they use are too different from real swords. All of these things and more build bad habits and create misperceptions.

To tell you the truth, despite the inaccuracies, I personally have not seen any better book for complete beginners that is currently out there. Since you are isolated, you may have to make the best of your situation and use this book as well as the historical manuals that are available online. The book will at least show you the basic motions of many things, such as the stances and some of the basic cuts (but beware the krumphau interpretation).

One helpful distance-learning technique that solo members in ARMA sometimes use is to record themselves on video and post it online for critique. Most of the time this is done privately between members, but since you're not a member, you might consider doing this publicly.

One of the most important rules to follow when learning (especially if you are on your own) is to train with intent- that is, if you are attempting a technique, make sure it works at realistic speed and power against a resisting opponent, better yet, make sure you can actually do it in sparring. If you can't get it to work at that level, then you probably need to refine your interpretation.
See this article for more information:
http://www.thearma.org/essays/Intent.htm

Also, fitness plays a big role in advancing in the art. If you are in good shape, it's more likely you will move efficiently and correctly. See the following article for more on the importance of fitness:
http://www.thearma.org/essays/fit/RennFit.htm

Lastly, pay attention to what you do when you spar. Try to incorporate what you've learned, and be ready to recognize what works when you are successful or what didn't when you aren't. Sparring is a very important learning tool. See the following article for more info on that:
http://www.thearma.org/essays/sparornot.htm

If you study the historical texts, practice with intent and with an honest trial-and-error attitude, stay in shape, and spar often and with intent and vigilance of what works and what doesn't, and be willing and able to say "I was wrong about this", you will have many of the tools you need to advance in the art.

Santiago Agustin Perez
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:30 pm

Postby Santiago Agustin Perez » Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:16 pm

Thanks for the reply!

We are in the process of building the wooden wasters we will use for training, and I've ordered the book and this dvd (http://www.reliks.com/merchant.ihtml?pid=2296).

I would like recommendations for an aluminium waster or a steel blunt that is not as pricy as Albion's Lichtenauer (which is a beautiful weapon, but so expensive :( ).


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