getting fit

[Karen Rose]

Note how he spent about half of his workout day to get all beefy for his new flick.
From USA Today interview:
'Physically, Pitt prepared for the role with a year of intense training. "The first three months were daunting and not fun at all." It included two to three hours in the gym, two additional hours of sword work and four high-protein, low-carb meals a day. As a result, he gained about 10 pounds of brawn. "It was grueling," Pitt says.'

So......sword work isn't for the faint of heart....or bicep. <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

Karen

[leam hall]

Hope Helen was worth it...

Actually, bulk is not a requirement for successful combat; and without proper care it can become a detriment. No matter how strong you are, if you're not flexible enough and have enough fine motor control to get the pointy end near the other person, you won't win. Bulk is good for uncoordinated attacks, but the wise rely on hand-foot coordination and mechanics to get a good blow in.

Bet Mr. Pitt would have loved to know that, might have saved him a lot of grief! He should'a come here for advice. <img src="/forum/images/icons/cool.gif" alt="" />

Add to that:
http://www.thearma.org/essays/howacutworks.htm

[Daniel_Vince]

True, though I would guess the added bulk is more for impressing the audience than anything else.

[leam hall]

Yep, but that's one of the fallacies we need to really dispel. Not only does it place undue emphasis on what really isn't the sole factor, it tells people who are not, and those who for whatever reason *cannot* be "muscular" that their swordsmanship will somehow be less.

As I've read articles on the forum and the website I'm recurringly hit by how little I know. As I read the manuals I wonder how the other students from 500 years ago internalised this and practiced it.

[Karen Rose]

Let me make a quick clarification. My only reason for posting this brief article from USA Today was to show that sword work is indeed a super hard workout, undertaken only through dedication and stick-to-it-iveness...no matter who you are.
I mean no disrespect to our forums, which are generally for scholarly exchanges of ideas.
And Leam....in my brief experience, the best swordsman I've seen are far from bulky....rather quick and wirey. Strength and size do not go hand in hand.
Anyways, apologies to any who find this posting frivolous.
(Off to do 100 Indian squats as punishment.)
Karen

[Stuart McDermid]

Hi Guys,

To turn this thread to a more practical direction:

I think that the best form of exercise for all around conditioning for swordplay is wrestling. It works on your functional strength, both types of endurance, and your agility all at once.

I find the best wrestling form for conditioning to be Olympic Freestyle. Wrestling for pins is alot more fluid and active than playing for pure submissions. We often play for both which is lots of fun indeed.
Thoughts?
Cheers,
Stu.

[leam hall]

Any recommendations on historical manuals to start with?

I've just finished a first glance at Talhoffer 1467 published by Stackpole books. He does discuss some wrestling but I'm not sure how they finished, assuming it was a real fight.

Also, any suggestions on safety practices? For those of us who are creakier than we were 20 years ago it's a consideration. <img src="/forum/images/icons/tongue.gif" alt="" />

[Karen Rose]

I recently began getting some judo instruction. Grappling is new to me and as I began looking at some of the plates from the various manuals I could see that I could be in trouble without some form of training.
My fundamental reason for getting some instruction was so that I would learn to fall without hurting myself. I am working on some ways to fall, roll, and stand up, without dropping my sword when possible. All while trying to keep my eyes on my opponent. <img src="/forum/images/icons/crazy.gif" alt="" />
Once I get a bit of that under reasonable control I should be able to get into a bit of grappling as an offense.
I'll take any suggestions from the asian martial arts folks most gratefully <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> Ditto on the wrestling...the ultimate for maintaining flexibility and quickness.
Karen

[Ryan Ricks]

actually translations/interpretations of ringeck/lichtenauer should have some good grappling/wrestling stuff in it. i know my tobler edition has, but i haven't really looked at it too much.

there's also stuff in talhoffer, but i don't think it's as much of a how to as ringeck

ryan

[John_Clements]

See the article on the site hear re Renaissance fitness &amp; grappling.

http://www.thearma.org/essays/fit/RennFit.htm

http://www.thearma.org/essays/G&amp;WinRF.htm

In my experience, wrestling today is taught and practiced as sport, and has been so for centuries. Few individuals understand combat wrestling. Even judo and similar martial sports/arts are more about closing to clench above the waist and make a take-down into ground fighting, which is not what using a weapon is about. And even there they usually don’t even consider the eye-gouging and biting that occur in real combat.

With a weapon, you use it preferably from a range, and avoid getting caught close-in where an opponent's natural size and strength (and wrestling skill has the advantage). Wrestling doesn’t teach the different ranges that occur prior to a grapple (or even the use of hand blows and leg kicks that are applicable there). And wrestling does not teach the quick boxing-like footwork necessary in later forms of foyning fence.

So, while grappling skills are certainly the essential foundation of fencing, as our historical sources tell us (which is what they meant by their "wrestling"), it nonetheless doesn't directly teach the principles of armed combat. …That’s why there is fencing.

JC

[Stacy Clifford]

As far as general fitness goes, the Renaissance fitness article does a good job of describing how they approached it back then. My favorite piece of advice from it is from Di Grassi:

"For the ende of this arte is not to lifte up or beare great burdens, but to move swiftelie. And there is no doubt but he vanquisheth which is most nimble, and this nimblenesse is not obtained by handling of great heftes or waightes, but by often moving."

There is no way to get good at moving except to get up and move. Obviously moving in the same ways as you'll be fighting has the most direct effect on the appropriate muscles, but there are lots of other things you can do to get similar effects. I like this guy's approach, which sounds a lot more entertaining than being in a gym:

Boucicaut described a regimen heavy on exercise fitness: "Now cased in armour, he would practise leaping on to the back of a horse; anon, to accustom himself to become long-winded and enduring, he would walk and run long distances on foot, or he would practise striking numerous and forcible blows with a battle-axe or mallet. In order to accustom himself to the weight of his armour, he would turn somersaults whilst clad in a complete suit of mail, with the exception of his helmet, or would dance vigorously in a shirt of steel; he would place one hand on the saddle-bow of a tall charger, and the other on his neck, and vault over him... He would climb up between two perpendicular walls that stood four or five feet asunder by the mere pressure of his arms and legs, and would thus reach the top, even if it were as high as a tower, without resting either in the ascent or descent... When he was at home, he would practise with the other young esquires at lance-throwing and other warlike exercises, and this continually."

By the way, in case anybody wonders, I am still the ARMA Webmaster, but I'm only going to use that forum identity for technical posts from now on, and use my name for my own opinions.