katzbalger use

[scott adair]

Are there any manuals that show katzbalger techniques? Were they used with a buckler or by themselves like a messer? I checked out a few landsknecht websites and read that it was a secondary weapon carried by pikemen but that was about all they said.

,Scott Adair

[GaryGrzybek]

Scott,

My impression has been that it was mainly a side arm or back up weapon by itself although I'm sure it could be used with a targe effectively enough.

Where's those Scottsmen when we need them? <img src="/forum/images/icons/smirk.gif" alt="" />

[Guest]

I am aware of no manuals that feature the Katzbalger. From what I understand, it was used basically like a Roman shortsword for thrusting when in close in the "push of pikes." But I would also go along with the idea that it may have been used much like a Messer. Paulus Hector Mair's fechtbuch features models many of whom are dressed like a stereotypical Landsknecht. It also covers the popular Landsknecht weapons.....halberd and pike. But the single hand weapon featured is the Dussack, which in Mair's case is based entirely on Messer technique. So I don't think it is too much of a stretch to theorize that the highly trained "doppelsoldner" amongst the Landsknecht ranks likely used Messer/Dussack technique with their Kaltzbalgers.

Keith

[Joachim Nilsson]

I agree with Keith on most of his post. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> But I don't think one would execute any thrusts whatsoever with a Katzbalger since it lack an acutely pointed tip. It [the tip] is rounded and thus not very suitable for thrusting. Typical Katzbalger here: http://www.lutel.cz/13001.htm

I think the Katzbalger was intended for close pressed slashing and cutting only. The Landsknechts had a name for a concept, namely "bad war" -something that happened when the Landsknechts were on opposite sides with their main rivals; the Reisläufer -Swiss mercenary pikemen. This "bad war" would always ensue when the two sides clashed and it's here, among tighly pressed bodies and walls of pikes and halberds, that I think the short, "cutfriendly" Katzbalger came to it's best use.

But now I'm digressing....And yes, it was most likely a sidearm only and were not used in concert with bucklers or the like. In a "bad war" situation there just wouldn't be any room for wielding a buckler. And the main Landsknecht armament has always been the pike and the halberd. I don't know of any manuals on the subject either but I agree with Keith that the best way to use a Katzbalger is with messer/dussack techniques, because that too is a very "cutfriendly" weapon. Or perhaps more to the point: it just screams "Cut! Chop! Cut!" <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/icons/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Just my humble opinion. <img src="/forum/images/icons/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Regards,

[Guest]

Scott, I would ask to German groups directly. They are very well informed about everything concerning their traditional weapons and I've seen a great propensity to give answers when questions are asked.
Carlo

[Jeffrey Hull]

I think it might handle something like a broad-bladed Viking Era sword - thus no surprise that a pattern-welded blade showed up rehilted as a Katzbalger some 600 or so years after the hey-day of such ("Archaeology of Weapons", by Oakeshott). JH