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Regarding the "formal discipline" approach to training: I am not so sure that standing at attention and doing military type drill stuff is such a good idea. If you need to do it for the military, fine, but on my free time I don't have a problem with the dreaded "gaggle". Mind ye, I have no patience for just sitting around and wasting time. To my mind, training time is for working techniques and sparring with other live humans that you can't do alone in your back yard solo drills. I just don't see why good intense training can't be done in a more relaxed manner. Also, I don't want to drive people away by doing formal "on command, left face" type things. This is a voluntary art after all.
The purpose of training is to benefit each person engaged in the training, not to increase the potential of recruitment. Although attracting more people to WMA would be great, we should not train in such a way as to make the sights and sounds more attractive unless it benefits the learning and practice of the martial artists involved
Although seeking a consistent structure and perhaps displaying a banner are ideas that I support, I humbly caution against doing things solely for the benefit of observers. The purpose of training is to benefit each person engaged in the training, not to increase the potential of recruitment. Although attracting more people to WMA would be great, we should not train in such a way as to make the sights and sounds more attractive unless it benefits the learning and practice of the martial artists involved.
...is there any extant record of what a typical day in fechschul looked like?
To be able to compete at the sharp (ok, bad pun) end of things. I don't care so much if we have pretty uniforms and compete with the beauty of our garments or manners. I DO care if you put us the salle with an EMA guy we can hold our own and then some. Hell even in the EMA world there are many arts that don't really go for the "costume" stuff. My taiji instructor work sweatpants and t-shirt. I wrestle in blue jeans (that is what I would be wearing in real life application so I train that way).
A significant number of people interested in WMA are not interested in EMA and prefer an informal approach. And they regard things like excessive deference to leaders, regimentation, titles, rigid uniform requirements, and formality in general as unnecessary bs. Start incorporating such things and you may attract some people, but you will also repel others.
Not advocating costumes. Just something along the lines of what Houston is doing. I've trained in an EMA school that favors sweatpants and tshirts instead of traditional garb, and I preferred it. I don't want to give up my exercise gear. I agree that our ultimate goal is being able to hold our own in a fight, but unfortunately there are a lot of people who become interested in martial arts for other reasons (exercise, discipline, self-confidence, whatever). If we cannot meet all of these expectations, then we will always be a "historical swordfighting group", not a "martial arts group." It may not be right, it may not be fair, but it's reality.
I would question why we bother to distinguish ourselves as the most "hardcore" WMA organization if we are as a whole unwilling to really set ourselves apart from the rest and acknowledge that we are learning historical combat arts; it is appropriate, IMO, to train for what was a knight's art by incorporating certain functional training concepts from our military heritage, which in the US is a combination of British and Prussian traditions that ultimately descend from Rome and Greece.
Repeating guards and strikes aloud during basic cut exercises is useful...
As Katherine wrote in one of the first posts, we don't seem to be attracting as "martial" a crowd as we'd like, and I believe this is largely due to our lack of an appropriately martial structure throughout the organization.
If we cannot meet all of these expectations, then we will always be a "historical swordfighting group", not a "martial arts group." It may not be right, it may not be fair, but it's reality.
How can we selectively pick and choose which aspects of historical European fighting systems we should preserve and expect to be taken seriously?
one quick question in that regard is if people want to get in shape and build confidence and all the other stuff why not find a gym and learn to box we all no that is a very effective, and it is in the main stream they show it every weekend on HBO? i think the answer in part is that we have a good idea how boxer's train and they sparr alot ie they beat each other up in training, and most don't want to get beat up.
i think if we were to go watch a high school wrestling team train we would be embarassed by what they do in there practice and what occur's in our's ringen/wrestling practice and we are supposed to be using an art that is for defense from grave bodily harm? just doesn't seem right to me a high school kid who train's hard then most of us and we think our training is special.
Historical fencing is a martial art.
I may be misinterpreting what you are saying, but it appears that you are advocating narrowing the organization to try to only attract those with a "martial" approach.
What about those who join based on other interests?
What I was trying to say is that most of the people I know in ARMA (myself included) had prior interests in non-traditional martial arts, swords, sport fencing, LARP, SCA, military history, etc. In other words, they were already predisposed to accept that what ARMA does is legit. That's generally not the case with EMA; EMA schools attract a wide range of people from all walks of life simply by virtue of being EMA schools. They don't have to prove anything to anyone to be accepted as viable fighting systems. We aren't at that stage yet in the minds of the public for the very reason that we are so "open source", so to speak. There is a point where going out of our way to avoid being "too Asian" ends up working against us, and I believe that the issue of class structure is one of them, because it is not at all an exclusively Eastern concept.
Why else would someone join our organization–which is distinct from all other WMA groups because of its focus on training with intent–instead of a more bookish group that doesn't value the athletic aspects of the art, or an anachronistic group that has no concept of technique or historical accuracy whatsoever?
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