Staff-work, thrusting vs striking

[JeanryChandler]

Were most staves tapered, like pool cues, (as the hafts of some pole-arms are) or of even circumfrance from one end to the other?

DB

[Stacy Clifford]

All the staffs I've seen drawn in the manuals appear to be straight-sided rather than tapered, but since staffs never really rose to the level of family heirlooms, I don't know if you're likely to find much evidence either way short of a master saying "use a tapered staff", and I don't know of any examples of that.

[JeanryChandler]

[quote] In reply to:
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There is a piece somewhere about an Englishman beating three rapier-wielding Spaniards,
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Could somebody point me to this article? I cant seem to find it. I'd like to show it to some friends..

Jeanry

[David_Knight]

I have seen some quarterstaff manuals from the 19th and early 20th century that describe a tapered weapon with a "butt" and a "tip", but these were for formal sporting tournaments.

Paulus Hector Mair's staffs appear to be of even circumference along the entire shaft, and his "forward point" and "rear point" switch, depending on whether you hold the weapon on your left or right side.

[JeanryChandler]

Stacy,

I'm in a sort of never ending argument about this on another thread, and I was wondering if you could clarify your opinion on a couple of premises:

1) A strike can potentially deliver a harder blow (more damaging, more kinetic energy) to a target than a thrust.

2) A thrust is somewhat easier to land against an actively defending opponent than a strike.

3) A strike is somewhat easier to void or parry

I'd appreciate your opinion on these, with the caveat of course that it's your current understanding of the art which you are learning, as we all are. (I think your knowledge here is a bit more advanced than most of the rest of us though...)

Jeanry

[JeanryChandler]

Dave Welch posted a pretty neat experiment with this on here a few months back that's worth another look.

Anybody remember the subject of this thread? I would like to see this....

Jeanry

[Stacy Clifford]

This is the thread I was referring to, and it might answer some of your questions:

http://www.thearma.org//forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=openresearch&Number=7737&Forum=openresearch&Words=staff&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=2&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=7737&Search=true#Post7737

[Stacy Clifford]

1.) A short up and down strike vs. a full-on thrust I couldn't tell you, but a full round single-hand strike comes with a sickening amount of force. See thread link above.

2.) A thrust is quicker and covers a shorter distance, and is much easier to feint and disengage with. Think of a staff/spear as a very large rapier and you get the idea.

3.) True in general, but you'd better know how to keep your knuckles clear! A smart staff fighter will go for the hands. As for voiding, I don't see as much of it in the staff material I've read. It seems to be a general consensus that it's better to keep your opponent's staff engaged in most cases. (Not all, but more often than not. I tend to agree with this.)

[JeanryChandler]

Thanks Stacy, thank you very much, I really appreciate it. You have been immensely helpful with all this.

With regard to voiding etc., keep in mind I am also thinking of potential encounters of staves versus other types of weapons as well as staff vs staff.

Thanks again,

Jeanry

[Stacy Clifford]

Generally I think you void more if the other guy has an equal or longer weapon than you. If yours is longer, he should never get close enough to hit you! <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

[JeanryChandler]

Right, exactly, which is why I would assume someone using a sword and buckler or a longsword against a staff would void those swings as much as possible... (or else risk apparently having their head turn into a fine gray-pink mist <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

Jeanry

[Stacy Clifford]

If you're using a staff against longsword, S&amp;B or some similar sword combo, you don't throw the big strikes until you've ensured that they can't or won't close on you, which they can do faster than you can get that tip back in line. The shorter weapon has to stifle the staff to move in, and that's usually hardest to do when the point is in the way and moving around hard to catch. Some of those big staff strikes are fast enough to work though if you've created some hesitation in your opponent. It's all about controlling the range in the end, for both sides.