Mortshlag

[M Wallgren]

Got the opportunity to test this with an Albion Next Generation Landgraf.

Barehanded stroakes against a soft armybag full of clothes.

At first I took it kind of slow to test if there would be some damage to my hands but nothing happened. Thus I got Bold and extended my strokes to full speed. No problem att all. I even tried to stop the strokes by tighten the grip like a Iaido full stop. No problem.

This was made with no handprotection att all and with a full grip of both hands. (not a "monkeygrip" or other, all the fingers around the blade and the thumb in a normal grip.)

Just sharing new Experiences...

[Matthew_Anderson]

Martin,

Thanks for sharing that. I've often heard it argued that bare-handed half-swording and murder strokes would be terribly damaging to the hands. Once again, we see that men who actually used these techniques in life and death struggles knew what they were doing!

[M Wallgren]

Thanks Matt!

I hope I can get my hands on a videoclip of me and Joachim Nilsson of ARMA Gimo, Sweden in a Halfsword sparring. We are realy going in that one, hope to be able to show it to you all in the future.

Speaking of that How do we get it to the video section on this site??

[Joachim Nilsson]

Speaking of that How do we get it to the video section on this site??

Don't you worry about that my dear friend. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> I have big plans for our little Talhoffer presentation project. <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

[Joachim Nilsson]

Matthew wrote:

Once again, we see that men who actually used these techniques in life and death struggles knew what they were doing!

Yes, they definately did. I witnessed Martin's "antics" and although I've always suspected that it could be done it was nonetheless great to see it executed in real life. Impressive. Can't wait to try things like that with the NextGen Talhoffer. That as well as Donnerschlag.

[Zach Palfreyman]

I think holding a sharp blade is generally safe, so long as your grip is firm (not slipping up and down). Like if you push your thumb against a sharp knife, it will not cut you, even with a lot of pressure. But add a cutting motion even with a little preasure, and it will cut easily. So I would actually think a firm grip is advisable, to keep your hand from sliding up and down the blade. Of course, if your hand is slick with something like sweat or blood, it would be even more risky.

[M Wallgren]

Got to try that to, yepp I will test with some lubricant like blood or mabie a substitute.

Anybody got a idea on what could simulate blood on the blade?

[Zach Palfreyman]

Maybe some watered-down syrup. But be careful.

I was thinking, with something like sweat or blood (or fake blood) on your hand/the blade, you might actually want a looser grip on the blade then you would while dry. A tight grip obviously means less chance for it to slip (usually), but with the lubricant your hand would also be more likely to slide further/faster, thus an increased chance of serious damage.

[Jeffrey Hull]

Cool! I have successfully done gloved half-sword thrusts and point-clips at strength into reasonably resistant targets with no damage to myself or my weapon. Nice to read about barehanded mortschlag successfully done. JH

[Shane Smith]

I have likewise thrust through heavy-walled cardboard tubes from the halfsword with no gloves on with a sharp DelTin. As long as the blade doesn't slide through your hands, you're generally okay. That said, maintaining a perfect grip on anything is pretty tenuous in combat or vigorous freeplay I'm sure.I'll continue to wear gloves/gauntlets when half-swording myself.

[david welch]

Another thing you can do to "safely" experiment is what I did with sharp dagger disarms. Wear tight fitting leather gloves, and put on surgical rubber gloves over them. If you don't cut through the rubber gloves with your technique, you can consider it evidence you could have done it bare handed.

[Casper Bradak]

I've opened my hands when vigorously using a sharp cutting blade longsword. Actually, I didn't notice until I hunted down a smear of blood. It was from pressing the edge with the inside of a finger joint, like a painless paper cut, maybe 3 mm long. It was completely inconsequential though, and unnoticable but for the blood.
Anyway, point being, it probably would've done the same to a rubber glove, but that doesn't mean it was a bad thing.

[JeffGentry]

Well there is a reason why Vadi? say's to sharpen only the first four finger's?

If the rest of the blade has a good bevel it will still be able to cut just not like the first four finger's so when we grab it in the middle to half sword it shouldn't cut your hand.

Then when we throw a full arm cut and it hit's a foot and half back it will still cut.

Jeff

[Joachim Nilsson]

Yes, that is certainly an option. But, if I'm not mistaken, I think he was talking about specific judicial swords (i.e. the ones with the tips that are shaped like spear-heads) when making that particular statement.

[Matthew_Anderson]

Yes, Vadi was addressing swords for fighting in armour. Here's the quote:

"If using the sword in arme’
It must be sharp four fingers from the tip
The grip as said above
The pointed hilt, and note this writing"

It makes sense really, the odds of cutting your opponent at all if he's fully armoured are remote, at best. I'd just as soon have a long, strong, steel spike to fight with.