Interesting cross training yesterday

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Chris Thompson
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Re: Interesting cross training yesterday

Postby Chris Thompson » Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:02 am

I agree that the argument is old, tired, pointless, you name it. But let's recap what happened in this thread-
- someone posted an anecdote about bouting against kenjutsu
- I said that what they were describing didn't sound like genuine kenjutsu
- the original poster replied that I was probably right, it probably wasn't real kenjutsu because they used "wrong" techniques including the edge parry
- I replied that the edge parry was actually a legit part of kenjutsu according to Yagyu Nobuharu, headmaster of the Shinkage Ryu
- someone else replied that Yagyu Nobuharu didn't know what he was talking about, and that's when it all went south.
As you can see, I didn't bring the issue up. And you can say you're not denigrating anyone all you want, but when you say Yagyu Nobuharu doesn't know what he's doing, you just look foolish. You don't practice Shinkage Ryu swordsmanship, you obviously don't know anything about it, and you're in no position to say what is correct technique in that style and what isn't. Who is in a position to say? The headmaster of that style. This isn't an isolated incident, it's a pattern I've seen ARMA members repeat again and again. Especially with the seemingly endless uninformed comments about the British styles- ARMA members seem determined to view that entire tradition through the lens of German swordplay, even if that means disregarding what the British manuals actually say or dismissing the authors of those manuals out of hand. If you want to stop having this conversation, stop bringing it up at every opportunity, stop dismissing all other styles and all other groups as rubbish, stop stating authoritative "facts" about things you have no experience with- in other words, if you want respect, show respect.

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Gene Tausk
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Re: Interesting cross training yesterday

Postby Gene Tausk » Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:06 am

Keep this thread on track or it gets closed down.

This is not a forum for discussing Asian martial arts. Get off this subject now and take it to another, non-ARMA, forum.

If anyone on this thread is advocating edge-on-edge parries, back it up with historical documentation, as requested.

No personal attacks.

I am inclined to agree with previous individuals who have posted on this thread that this is a waste of time. However, I will not close it down as of yet.

However, this thread will continue to be monitored closely.


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Chris Thompson
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Re: Interesting cross training yesterday

Postby Chris Thompson » Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:38 am

>This is not a forum for discussing Asian martial arts. Get off this subject now and take it to another, non-ARMA, forum>

The thread was about cross-training with Asian-style martial artists. If that is off-topic, then the whole thread is off-topic.

>If anyone on this thread is advocating edge-on-edge parries, back it up with historical documentation, as requested>

Thanks to Rabbe Laine for several of these:

“receive your Adversary's Sword with a proper Guard upon the Edge of your own Sword.” (Thomas Page, 1746)

Viggiani, "Lo Schermo"
Count: "In this manner, our two swords would meet cross-wise, true
edge on true edge."

Rodomonte: "This is the common parry, taught by all Masters and used
by most fencers."
*
George Silver, "Bref Instructions Upon My Paradoxes of Defence"
"The like may you do if he strike at your other side, if you ward his blow with the edge of your sword your hand and knuckles as aforesaid..."
*
Doebringer:
"... and ward off all blows and thrusts with the front edge, as it is with the displacements"

Or, from "The Teachings of Marozzo By Giovanni Rapisardi":

"About the parries, the only information are about the sword's edges and about this question Dall'Agocchie says:«in only two ways can you parry with the sword, or with the true edge or with the false"

Or, from DiGrassi:
"he may encounter the right edge-blowe after an otherwaie, and that is, to encounter it with the edge of his sworde"

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Gene Tausk
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Re: Interesting cross training yesterday

Postby Gene Tausk » Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:55 am

This is not a forum for discussing Asian martial arts. Get off this subject now and take it to another, non-ARMA, forum>

The thread was about cross-training with Asian-style martial artists. If that is off-topic, then the whole thread is off-topic.


There is a big difference between discussing cross-training between Asian martial arts practitioners and ARMA members and gloryfying/praising a Kenjutsu school. This thread began with a person describing his positive experiences in cross-training with a Kenjutsu practitioner. It has degenerated into your "amen Hallelujah" of a school of Kenjutsu.

This thread is now closed.


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------------->>>>>>>>>>>>>gene tausk

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John_Clements
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Re: Interesting cross training yesterday

Postby John_Clements » Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:46 am

Sigh...Again, each of these quotes, taken out of context no less, as well as many more have already been addressed and explained in articles on our site.

If all you can do is continue to confuse and obfuscate between instructions for displacing counter-strikes or closing actions with the inferior direct dui tempo edge blocks of post-Renaissance fencing styles, no one can help you understand or improve.
Do NOT send me private messages via Forum messenger. I NEVER read them. To contact me please use direct email instead.


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