More intent in sparring!

[Aaron Pynenberg]

Pad your pommel- we hit with the pommel on many occasions. It adds a huge part to the effectiveness of the weapon.- Aaron

[Gene Tausk]

Aaron:

Can you bring one of these contact weapons with a padded pommel to the event this weekend? I would like to see how you pad the pommel and the material used.

Thanx in advance.


------------------->>>>>>gene tausk
SFS
Study Group Leader - Houston ARMA Southside

[Matt Bryant]

Sparring with intent is a very important aspect of our group's training program. I would have to stress the need for quality padded sparring weapons.

Fighting against Ernie has learned us young fellows a few things. Among these things one of the most paramount is: "Don't let Ernie hit you!". That old man packs a real wallop!
The full force blows of full speed sparring are sufficient to instill the right mindset of lethality in my mind (especially after doing a good bit of test cutting and seeing what those blows would have done to me.)

Go full force. But do also keep in mind: just because you are sparring full speed doesn't mean you are actually fighting. This means limiting yourself in your Ringen am Schwert speed and other grappling. We tend to slow down at that point and make certain that we aren't about to seriously hurt each other.

A few bruises and knots are by no means going to kill you. <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

[Jake_Norwood]

I will sometimes run "10-second" bouts, where someone on the sidelines counts down to 10, by the end of which one of the two combatants needs to be "dead." It adds a great deal of intensity if your sparring is beggining to become a chess game instead of a fight.

I'm largely with the Poland guys on the idea of using many different forms of sparring. Just going to one hit teaches you to stop when you get hit--not a good habit for a real fighter. Ignoring too many hits, or going for a predetermined time, can lure scholars into a false sense of security about the weapon.

This helps, too. After a few bouts that are clearly not with the right kind of intent and attitude, take away the padded swords, give both parties steel sharps (or even blunts) and say "Kill each other."

Now (and this is important!), don't let that fight happen. But watch the fighters eyes when you say it, and watch their starting range increase, and watch the fear of the other guy's weapon. Take the steel swords away, replace the padded ones, and tell them to remember what they just felt as they fight.

After all, if you both get hit, you didn't both win--you both lost!

Jake,
who does lots of push ups, and thinks that they work as a great incentive, but only in multiples of 100.

[JeanryChandler]

I fully agree to what you both have just stated. Martin, what you need to do is to get a sharp and do some test-cutting with your guys. Then they will quickly realize just how devastating different attacks can be.

I think this is a very good idea. Test cutting, especially with really good sharps, conveys a rather hair-raising realisation of how lethal these weapons really are.

Another thing which helps a lot in our group is to have a lot of visitors from outside the group, especially guys from other disciplines like EMA and stuff. Fighting people you don't know will raise the level of tension quite a bit.

Jeanry

[JeffGentry]

Hey Doug

Well that is the thing I don't think sparring will ever "feel" realistic, because it is not, it is sparring.

I doubt a boxer ever has the same feeling when sparring that he does when he is in the ring for an actual fight.

On another note IMO sparring is supposed to be a learning and perfecting enviroment with a resistant and uncooperative partner, so it should not be "realistic",

That is why i stated the above at the bottom of my post.


Also i agree with Jeanry fighting alot of diffrent people you normaly don't will also make it a little more intense just because of the unknown factor, I have had a pretty good summer doing some traveling and having some folk's come here to town I have been able to train with a few more people who i don't see regularly and I think that has gotten me doing/using some technique's and principle's in way's i wasn't before.


Jeff

[SzabolcsWaldmann]

Well I think,

For fighters with the right kind of attitude, like you, Gene, does not need to do any pushups or whatsoever to be able and play that bout as if it was real. Now, the question meant for me, that the people do not take 'diing' or 'getting hit' seriously (mostly beginners I guess) and do things they'd never do in a fight for the death. Some people simply ignore many dangers of the enemy weapon, launch an attack that is so risky, that it could get him outright killed. That is, becouse he knows his partner, he gambles on being more frightenening, and he knows he is not really in danger.
Our method - doing pushups when things get to silly - helps beginners to focus and not go into risky attacks, that they'd never do in real battle.

Greetings,

Szabolcs

[M Wallgren]

We do them!!

Martin

[M Wallgren]

Thanx for all the answers.

I will clarify my point a little bit. When we sparr a problem arise, my guys get to cocky and bashing them over the head with sparringswords or waisters (we sparr mostly with waisters because they behave more like swords and hurt more) because thast what they already do. Resently Joachim Nilsson and Nils-Erik Fahlvik visited us and Joachim gave us a very good lecture on Döbringer.

For all those familiar with his text on Longsword he states that the ART of fighting is when a weaker person can use his weakness to win, i.e. use the five words concept, the vorschlag and nachslag, the drei wunder (Strike, trust and drawcut) the nachreisen und so veiter...

All of those points in one direction, the sword is sharp and dangerous and a small trained guy use this against a large untrained guy and win.

In sparring with padded swords only the strikes are scary (and possibly the very forceful trusts). But strikes is just one third of the attacs you can and should use agaist your opponent. I also think that the padded sworddesigns we all use are construted with a much more strikingminded fightstyle in our thought than I read out of Döbringers fighting. The point agaist the face at a distance of around two feet, and then attack as if a cord was drawn between your point or edge to the CLOSEST blossen. Dupliren and Mutiren are stabing attacks ending in drawcuts or trusts. Sounds like a more drawcut and trustbased fighting than a striking to me. And Döbringer is the closest one we have to Liechtenauer. I wonder if we not all have fallen into a Hollywood/stagefighting trap on a much more deeper level than we thought. I have started to think of longsword fighting in the 15th century as a cut and thrust art. The origins of rapierfighting. This is of course just speculation but one I will go to depth with.

This is why I want more ways of sparring or more tools to use in training. I don´t want to lose our "trditional" form of sparring just want to be a better fighter an most of all, make my students better fighters. (espesially when they have more potencial than I...)

All the best...

Martin

[M Wallgren]

Thansx Doug ... Thats exactly what I ment:)

Martin

[Jeremy Martin]

I know exactly what you're talking about concerning getting complacent.

Though my weapons training is limited, I've sparred many times before in various martial arts and it is very easy to get into being complacent. And as a big video game player I know for certain that when it's not real you'll do many things you would never even consider doing in a real situation. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> A lot of that you're just not going to be able to get away from.

I think one of the best things to do is as a peer or an instructer is to simply point it out to someone when they are being complacent. That will usually straighten them up, for at least a while, and don't be afraid to point it out whenever necessary even if thats often. And encourage people to point it out to you when you're in fault of doing it.

If this fails then you could do something like making them do push-ups, but that should be held in reserve most of the time(not to mention -making- them do push-ups doesn't seem to be in-line with the atmosphere of ARMA, just my impression though).

That being said, I'm working on some motivational equipment to keep people from becoming complacent. It involves laser sensors, electrodes, and a large battery.....

[SzabolcsWaldmann]

Well, I never make my stendts do things I do not do. So I do those pushups in the first place, when it's needed.


Szab

[Bill Welch]

We(ARMA Knoxville) have also started to come to the same conclusion, that Dobringer(liec form of long sword) should be more point driven, it is a lot faster. When you have a point in your face and know your opponent will use it to jab you in the head it make you more intense.

[Gene Tausk]

"This helps, too. After a few bouts that are clearly not with the right kind of intent and attitude, take away the padded swords, give both parties steel sharps (or even blunts) and say "Kill each other."

Now (and this is important!), don't let that fight happen. "

ROTFLOL!


---------&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;gene tausk
SFS
Study Group Leader - ARMA Houston Southside

[JeffGentry]

Hey Martin

I started a thread in the virtual class room, off of thnis one, i titled it Doebringer and intent from M. Walgren in open research.


Jeff