Rapier?

[Jaron Bernstein]

Hi all,

After some quality time with Capo Ferro, I am interested in starting the rapier. I was wondering if anyone had suggestions for a good live sharp (well, pointy, as rapiers weren't so sharp) rapier and training blunt one. Albion has a blunt in the works but it isn't out yet.

Thanks!

[Lorraine Munoa]

For training, IMHO the fiberglass simulators you can find instructions for here on the site are pretty darn good..
Dunno what you want with a sharp one, other than test..er, poking.....but I do know most steel "rapiers" out there are dubious at best...
Does anyone make good steel rapiers, blunt or pointy?

[Brian Hunt]

I haven't yet found a blunt blade that I like. The problem with every single commercial blunt steel blade that I have handled to date is the approach to the blade. I want an extremely stiff, and I mean stiff blade. When you put a ball, rabbit blunt, or whatever on the end to further blunt the blade, the blade should not be so whippy that the point bends offline while simply moving the blade from one guard to another. The blade should not be a spring and the point should not be easily bent to the side by your opponent because of the flexibility of the blade. The problem lies in that the largest group of rapier practitioners are in the SCA. The SCA believes in a built in saftey margin in their blades by having them be flexible. For what they do, and the minimal training it takes to get authorized to get on the field, I understand their reasoning. But as a martial artist, I believe the control and saftey belongs in the hands of the weilder, and should not be built into the weapon, thereby distorting how it should handle. If you are using a weapon whose primary attack is a thrust, shouldn't the blade be stiff? For now, until I find a blunt I like, I am reccomending the fiberglass rapiers I developed. They are inexpensive, easy to make, and work much better than any flexi rapier I have handled. As for sharps, most of the ones I have handled so far have the same failings as the flexi rapiers. They are not stiff, and flex easily at the weak. I am so vexed by the lack of a good rapier, that I am looking to start forging my own blades. It will be a little bit before I am ready to do this since I wish to finish a propane forge and possibly build a power hammer first before I start. If someone knows of a good stiff sharp, I would love to hear about it. I am interested in a couple of the new paul chen rapiers that have come out, especially the gustav, whose blade is interchangble with the practical flexi rapier blades (thereby my concern on this one). The problem with rapiers is that most makers approach them from the pleasing lines of the hilt, and forget about how the blade should handle.

Sorry for my minor rant.

hope this is of some help to you.

Brian Hunt
GFS

P.S. Tom Leoni's new translation of Salvitor Fabris' book is really good. If you have an interest in Rapier, I highly reccomend it. It is clearer than Cappo Ferro, and actually helps one better undstand CF.

[Allen Johnson]

Whenever you are buying a sword, you get what you pay for. You cant expect a piece that looks and handles like an original for $300. Especially with rapiers. Brian is right that there really isnt a great production rapier out there. One of the big dilemas is cost. It takes a bit more effort to make a complex hilt like a rapier than a standard bastard sword. Also there are alot of other groups out there that make up a bigger part of the market than just ARMA folk, that have super paranoid safety requirements. These requirements ask that rapier have super flexi blades which result in innacurate rapiers and schlagers. But the companies are more than willing to do this because its easier and more money for them. I feel if you were to spend more money and get a higher level rapier or a custom, you might be sitting a bit better. Even though the fiberglass ones are a cheaper way to go, I still feel that if you can afford a steel rapier then go for it.
Here are my recomendations
http://www.casiberia.com/cas/productsearch.asp?subsub=yes&cat=Swords%20and%20Daggers&subcat=Western&subsubcat=Rapiers
CASI has some ok rapiers. Only get the Hanwei ones. I have one of these and it is decent enough. Even though their newer ones look a bit better, I am told that the construction/weight/balance really hasnt changed much.

http://www.darkwoodarmory.com/

Darkwood has really been turning out some great stuff. The next rapier I buy will probably be from here. Scott is able to do a suprisingly large range of custom work. I havent tested them out yet but he said his Darkwood line of blades are a little stiffer than the Del Tin ones you can get from him. I've chatted with him a few times and he's a good guy.

http://www.armor.com/rapiers.html
If you can spend a few more coins Arms and Armor makes some of the higher quality ones today. They can make pretty much anything you want...for a price. It wont take you long on thier site to see how good they are. They also can customize pretty much anything.

[DavidEvans]

I would suggest Arms & Armor. My Italain rapier is a rib breaker in stiffness, that's if it hasn't puched thro your lungs! For training. Darkwood armouries......Doesn't flex too much but it wouldn't break ribs..... Too stiff a blade and you will break ribs....Which itsn't a good way of making friends

[Brian Hunt]

Hi David,

how does your arms and armour Italian rapier handle? Is it well balanced, does the point easily go where ever you point it (much like a laser pointer), is it comfortable in the hand? Is it a sharp? If so, would it be worth buying one to make into a blunt, or would the edge geometry make this a risky venture.

Thanks.

Brian Hunt
GFS

[Jaron Bernstein]

Thanks! <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />

I will likely just do a fiberglass simulator for training, but it is nice to know where to get a real good sharp (well, pointy for the rapier) for burglar deterence, flourishing and test poking.

[Brian Hunt]

Hi Jaron,

if you have any problems or questions on assembling your own fiberglass rapier, just shoot me a private message, and I will see what I can do to help.

Brian Hunt
GFS

[DavidEvans]

Brian

It stays online throughout the thrust or lunge like a dream. There's no need to apply force to keep it on target at all. Mind you, mine has a 40" blade fitted as requested.

I don't think just blunting it would make it safe for use in drilling. The blade is very stiff, so stiff my instructor just says NO! Even blunt it will break ribs on a full lunge, and I suspect at $800 i wouldn't want to blunt it!

David

[Brian Hunt]

Hi David,

thanks for your reply, you may have answered my needs for a good sharp, now still questing for a blunt I consider worth buying. Guess I need to finish that forge and get to work.

Brian Hunt
GFS

[Brian Hunt]

With some of Allen's comments on steel, I thought I ought to mention that the fiberglass rapiers are meant to be used as a type of waster for rapier. If one seriously pursues rapier, they are going to need a good steel blunt, and a good steel sharp. The fiberglass rapier can also be used for bouting, so IMHO you don't need a padded weapon for rapier training.

just some random thoughts on this.

Brian Hunt
GFS

[Jaron Bernstein]

Thanks for all the very helpful advice. One last question: what is the "perfect length" for a rapier. <img src="/forum/images/icons/laugh.gif" alt="" />

[Brian Hunt]

In general, if you stand the rapier on it's point on the ground the cross should be at about your belly button. It varies some, plus or minus. A good standard of length is a weapon that is about 48 inches overall.

Brian Hunt
GFS

[Jeffrey Hull]

...Especially if Elizabeth has decreed that your rapier is not to exceed a certain length, as is pleasing to the court <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

By the way, I forget my reference for that, and thus just what length of blade she declared was acceptable.

Does anyone remember or have a link to refer?

[Rod-Thornton]

If you have a copy of Sidney Anglo's treatise, you'll find the phrase, the edict, and the source citation therein.