Question

[Kim Jorgensen]

I am writing a story and would like a little technical assistance. This may not be the forum to come to, but yours was the first I found that sounds like the members are into the reality of what different weapons might do, instead of what some might imagine they could do. (In my younger days I fenced, so there is a small background in reality here.) If anyone can point me in the direction of a better site to go to, I will take my question there. If it would be permissible to post it on your forum, I will, after I get permission to do so. I am serious about this. I have never posted my real name on any other site.

The question goes something like this (and after my comment about real weapons, you may roll your eyes, but even imaginary weapons should behave like real weapons.)

Combatant 1 has a medium-length sword and a long dagger.
Combatant 2 has a pair of Swing Blades
Picture of Swing Blade

What tactics or movements would be logical for each opponant?

Combatant 2 has height, weight, and arm length over Combatant 1

I don't even understand how one would fight with Swing Blades, as they seem to be pointing backward and don't provide much additional reach, but the fellow I am writing this with really likes them. And no, he hasn't a clue.

[Gene Tausk]

Hi Kim:

There is nothing wrong with your question; I just moved it to the open forum so everyone would have a chance to take a look at it and venture their opinions.

Too busy right now, but I am sure their are other ARMA members who will take a stab, er, cut, at your question and hopefully this will answer it.

Welcome to the ARMA forums.


------------>>>>>>>>gene tausk
SFS
Study Group Leader - Houston ARMA Southside

[Kim Jorgensen]

Thank you very much for the nice welcome.

[Patrick Hardin]

Hello, Kim.

Okay, to start with, Combatant 2 is at a major disadvantage as far as weapons go, even with his greater size. I know the idea of using 2 short weapons against longer ones seems good at first, but I can tell you from personal experience that in practice it is inferior. Also, you're right about these swing-blades. I don't see much use to them at all, in fact. That said, let's work with what we've got. First of all, the "burden of victory," so to speak, is on Combatant 2. He is limited to close-in fighting, which means he has to get past the sword to kill Combatant 1, who can use his sword to keep him at bay. In addition, the swing blades will not offer much defensively without severe damage to themselves, as it doesn't look like you could defend with them any other way than an edge block, which is very bad for them. Parrying with the flat will likely damage the user's hands. So, Combatant 2's only chance for survival will be to close inside the range of Combatant 1's sword. This is not impossible, but it will be considerably more difficult with Combatant 1 having a dagger. If I were in Combatant 2's place, I would probably throw one of the swing blades at Combatant 1 and try to close and grapple on Combatant 1's right side (assuming the sword is in the right hand) in order to avoid the dagger. Even a short weapon and an empty hand would be better than 2 short weapons in a situation like this, IMO. I would also hold the swing blades with the point up, because that would give a little more reach, and you could use them more like an actual weapon, then. <img src="/forum/images/icons/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Combatant 2 has his work cut out for him, but nothing is impossible. Hope that helps.

Patrick Hardin

[JoshCooley]

Looking at the swing blade I think Patrick has it pretty much right... but I would make a suggestion.

If you modified the swing blade slightly it could become more effective. As it is the grip allows the user only to hold the blade so that the blade portion is infront of the fist and the jagged edge is above the hand... this makes the weapon seem very akward and unusable.

If you changed the grip slightly so that the jagged edges would be infront of the fist and the blade itself extended more down the forarm. Then the jagged edges could be used for blocking and deflecting or maybe even trapping a blade, which would be very hard or nearly impossible with the grip the way it is inthe picture, and the blade would then be able to be used more for slashing attacks with punch like motions.

this still leaves the big problem of having to get in close to do any harm.

[Mike Cartier]

I would throw the swing blades at the other guy to buy me time to run and get a sword.

[JeffGentry]

Hey Kim

Those swing blade's do look cool.

As for the question, if you are writing the story you might want to give combatant 2 some sort of gauntlet's with a projection on them to act as a shield or steel bracer to use as a defense against the sword, the problem was already addressed as getting past a sword and dagger, at least having arm protection with some sort of gauntlet with a small shield built into it he could use it to block and set aside the sword there are a couple of actual illustration's of a shield worn on the arm from the shoulder down with a point on it, i do not know where the illustration is at the moment it is historical though.

Jeff

[Kim Jorgensen]

So refreshing to come into a polite, thoughtful forum. Thank you for the insight on the swing blades. Now, how about suggestions for Combatant 1 facing any of the suggested situations as well as the situation of the fellow just going at it as described. We are writing this together now, and I will pass on what you have suggested. I, however, prefer something a little more recognizable to me, so I'm rooting for Combatant 1. It's all negotiated as we write this, but I have the job of making it sound right. As I understand it, SwingBlade is going to have to crowd Sword/Dagger?

[Aaron Pynenberg]

Jeff- those shields are cool, they even have a little point on the end to stab with and kind of remind me of the new Batman Begins guy using his gauntlets against the sword- very cool, I have wanted to make something like those shields and try it out-

[Mike Chidester]

I think you'd be referring to these, Jeff:

Hungarian Shield

[Stacy Clifford]

Yeah, that's the shield he's talking about. I like those too.

If I had the sword and dagger in this situation, I'd go for thrusts to the head and torso and cuts to the legs. The dagger would be more of a reserve weapon in case #2 breaks distance and gets close. Those swing blades don't look very good for parrying low cuts, so cuts below the knees should be easy to hit, and the old hi-lo or lo-hi fake looks like it would work beautifully. Get him to defend with both high or both low and then slip and cut the opposite way, or if he catches on to that, get him to split his defense and catch him in the middle. I agree with the others here, swing blade guy is at a serious disadvantage here against a competent swordsman.

[Kim Jorgensen]

Definately looking to you guys for guidence in that part about competency.

[Jeremy Martin]

Is it meant to be gripped with the point facing forwards? If so, I guess it could be used like a funky knife.

Rather have the sword.