Sword Smithing

[JoshCooley]

I've seen a couple of people in posts here allude to the fact that they pursue sword making etc. I am interested in this topic and was wondering if anyone could give me info or sources to pursue.

I'm interested to find out what is the best way to get started.. how much cost for start up, where to find "how to" information etc.

[SzabolcsWaldmann]

Our swordsmaker, Peter Regenyei, has a homepage here:
http://armoury.sword.sg18.net/
And he has put on a full explained how-to page:
http://armoury.sword.sg18.net/html_hun/making_sword.htm
But this is not about smithing, but grinding your sword from purchased steel (for example 51crv4) and hardening it. In my opinion, if you can create a sword this way, you may think about smithing the blade. THIS is easyer than smithing, and will teach you a lot about working with metal and all the tools. Essentially, the main difference lies only in the first step: if you forge your raw material or purchase it and cut it out.
Take a look. It's hungarian, but if you are truly interested I could translate the essentials.

Have fun <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

Szabolcs

[Brian Hunt]

I am a amature bladesmith. I make both carbon steel knives, and pattern welded knives. I have also made a couple of swords. I reccomend finding someone to teach you. I also reccomend starting small. Learn to forge a knife before you tackle a sword. For reading, find yourself all three books by Jim Hrisalous (spelling?) starting with "the complete bladesmith." These will answer your basic questions on blade smithing. Also consider taking the beggining knife forging class held yearly in Hope Arkansas by Texarkana college and the American Bladesmithing Society. If you purchase a copy of "Blade" magazine, they generally post an ad in the back on the classes.

You will need a forge (either gas or coal/coke), several hammers, an Anvil of some type (either a good used one, a newly purchased one, or a found block of steel with a good flat surface such as a large heavy piece of I-beam), tongs to hold your work, a quench tank, and lots of files (or a good belt grinder-you could get by with the cheap 2" knife grinder from grizzly, but would still want files). Paladin press sells a set of videos that takes you through the steps of setting up a basic stock removal knife making workshop for about $250. These may be of interest to you. I also reccomend learning to use 5160 carbon steel for your blades, it is fairly easy to work with, is forgiving of mistakes, and makes a very nice knife or sword. You can purchase lengths of it at Admiral Steel. Also take a look at the website www.anvilfire.com , there is a great deal of general smithing information there.

hope this helps.

Brian Hunt
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[Brian Hunt]

Hey Szabolcs

nice article on grinding a sword. Thanks for the link, it is always nice to see how others solve similar problems.

Thanks.

Brian Hunt
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[Brian Hunt]

A interesting article on minamalistic knife making.

http://hossom.com/tutorial/jonesy/

laters.

Brian Hunt
GFS

[Travis Beamon]

Rather interesting thread for the novice such as myself but I must say that article rocks, Brian. I think I could even pull that one off.

[JoshCooley]

Thanks very much for the links guys <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> lots of great info.

SzabolcsWaldmann I don't want to cause you too much trouble, but I would be very interested in seeing the how to page translated into english. That looks like a great place to start. I'm going to have to start saving in order to buy tools and equipment and books... lots of books.

I don't really know of anyone in my area who does this kind of thing. Unfortunately I'm from midwestern wisconsin.. nothing I'm interested in is ever close to here. <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Brian Hunt]

Hi Travis,

All you really need to make a stock removal knife is a drill, a way to cut your steel to shape (a hacksaw), a way to cut your bevel (files), and a way to bring it to a non-magnetic state (a forge, a fire, a kiln or heat treat oven, etc.), a way to temper it (kitchen oven), a way to polish it (sand paper, polishing stones, etc.), and a sharpening stone to make it a cutting tool. Plus the minimal tools for shaping a wood hilt. For that matter, you can even just wrap your hilt with rope or twine, and dip in a laquer to keep it from turning in your hands.

for a heat source, here is a very simple forge setup from an old barbecue grill. Heck, you could even do this one on the ground with out the grill, just use the pipe with the holes in it, the side bricks to contain your fire, and a shop vac for an air source. With a plain fire, you can also use a semi large piece of plywood, a garbage can lid, or something of similar dimensions to fan the coals and make them hotter in order to reach non-magnetic. A simple bag bellows is another way to bring air into the fire and make it hotter.

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles/green51.html

you can also use a hair dryer for your air source.

laters.

Brian Hunt
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[Brian Hunt]

another good link

http://www.iforgeiron.com/

this is more general blacksmithing, but really good info here.

Brian Hunt
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[Travis Beamon]

Wow, much thanks Brian. I'll definately check both those articles out and since i work for the good ol' Home Depot all of these supplies arent at all hard to come by. The only thing I have to worry about is a place to set up all of this since I live in an apartment.

Thanks for the info!

[Brian Hunt]

Hey Travis,

get yourself one of those folding workbenches, black and decker makes one, and use a clamp down vice with it for all your basic steel handling needs. As for the fire, don't know what to say there, you could look at building an electric kiln for heating your blade to non-magentic (this option is more expensive to build than the barbecue forge), and still use your kitchen oven to temper your blades. I will see if I can find the link to the article on building a kiln from standard angle iron, softfire brick, and a heating element if your interested.

Brian Hunt
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[Travis Beamon]

Brain,

This wednesday I'm getting together with some of my buddies from ARMA and working on getting these easy knives made. He has all the tools already and its well into the open country so we can build a large enough fire that we need. One question, after we quench the blades in the oil we use how long can we wait before baking them in said oven? I figure we'll all have our blades ready be baked at the same time but just in case we have to wait for another person is there a time limit? Also how far could I go with this smithing technique? Could one say create say a ....rondel.... style dagger if enough work was put into? I have a friend that could produce and attatch the furniture, but I'm just considering making the blade and such. Perhaps one with a triangular crosssection, eh?

Hit me back,

[Brian Hunt]

Hi Travis,

You want to move on to annealing your blade fairly quickly. After you have quenched it in the oil, by the way transmission fluid works well for 5160, I like to hit the blade with some sort of abrasion to clean it up (sandpaper, a stone, etc.). It will be really hard, and files may only skip without being able to bite. After you have the blade back to bright steel, instead of looking gray, you will want to temper it. I prefer a shiny blade for tempering over one as it is out of the quench because I judge a lot of my heat treat by the colors of the steel, however knowing the correct temparature works very well on it's own. Be sure to use an accurate theometer, ovens are natorious for being incorrect on their heat settings if you go by the numbers on the knob. Do not wait over night to temper a blade after you have hardened it. There are a lot of stresses in the blade after you harden it. I have seen blades snap in half that were left untempered over night due to internal stress. So about an hour to two hours after you harden it, that gives you time to clean the blade after the quench without having it snap. Yes, you could use this method to do a rondell dagger, just remember, the longer the blade, the more chance of it warping when you harden it, accuracy in your filing will help prevent this. If you friend has a hand held belt sander, you can mount it in a vice, and use it for a cheap belt grinder. This will help you quickly move through the rough grinding, but I would reccomend finishing with your files. As far as this goes, the sky, and your resources for heat treating are the limet. You could make a sword using this method, but it would be really time consuming (for blades over about a foot long, you might want to invest in a inexpensive 4" angle head grinder from Harber frieght). Also remember on longer blades, draw filing is your friend. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

good luck on wednesday, if you have any more questions, just speak up and I will answer to the best of my knowledge.

Brian Hunt
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[Brian Hunt]

Hi Charly,

I disagree with you about whether or not you can use ATF for a quench. I have made several knives this way, and have talked to other smiths who also successfully use ATF for a quenchant. I will agree with you that mineral oil is also a good oil to quench with, some smiths have really good luck with olive oil as well. Some have used bacon grease or animal fat as well. Then there is the goop quench that Wayne Goddard uses in his books. Or if you want to spend the cash buy a commercial quench oil. Otherwise, you have some good advice.

Brian Hunt
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