My method of practicing Longsword.

[Bill Tsafa]

For over a Year now I have been gathering information and experimenting with a new way of training in Longsword. In the absence of a training partner I have found this method very useful and would like to share it with everyone. I have created a website containing the information I have created. You may veiw it here:
http://mysite.verizon.net/tsafa1/pell/index.htm

[JeffGentry]

Hey Bill

If you don't have a practice partner i think you are on the right track, flouryishing and using a pell is a good way to go when your by yourself, like you said you can only learn so much cutting empty air, having resistance is needed.

I would say get together with whoever whenever you can with another person to get some sparring or even waster free play, even if they aren't WMA practioner'sit all has a place in what we do.

Jeff

[Bill Tsafa]

I have been practicing a number of strikes and wish to share my discovery with everyone. Perhaps I am stating something obvious and if that is the case I am sorry but it is new to me.

In theory it seems natural to make a horizontal strike with a single hand sword using the long edge (true edge). Now use that on a tire-pell and you will find that using the long edge stresses the elbow. My practice sessions have shown me that it is better to use the short edge (false edge) . To be clear this is a situation where you use your right hand to strike horizontally from right to left. If you use the long edge you are forced to drop your elbow as you move the sword across your chest. If you rotate you wrist and use the short edge, the elbow stays high and behind the blow. I was only able to realize this by hitting something hard with the sword, then the mechanics became apparent.

Please let me know if you think I missed something in this.

[Ben Strickling]

Perhaps other people can speak from more experience on this, but recently we here in DC had a rather extensive "pumpkin carving" session. We tried some unterhaus and horizontal midelaus on pumpkins with sharps using both the long and the short edge. Personally I notice that for me it's harder to keep that edge exactly on target when using the short edge. This wasn't the kind of thing that that I was doing so poorly that it should have been noticeable in normal practice, but of course when test cutting if you don't get that edge perfectly level you notice the difference.

Just my two cents.

[Doug Marnick]

Ben,

Other than body mechanics, how were the cuts when on target? To all ARMA members, I would like to see more test cutting videos done with strikes other than oberhau, zornhau, and thrusts. I would love to see a comparison done with many of the short edge or horizonatal strikes for the power they could produce in the hands of an experienced swordsman. Yea, we all love the deer carcass video, but what's the effect of a rising cut? Let's prove these strikes aren't as weak as some may think.

[GaryGrzybek]

Hi Bill,

A horizontal strike with the false edge can be quite affective but from right to left using a single hand sword seems weak. To me it feels like the sword can be wrenched from my grip. If you practice enough, the true edge will be quite natural and stronger in the grip. I find a false edge strike from left to right to be better especially for displacing. With the longsword there's less to worry about since you obviously have two hands on the grip. The one false edge single hand strike I feel most comfortable with is vertical. This is common in Messer play and very effective. The one problem with a tire pell is that you get a lot of bounce which can be tough on the joints. This could be a factor in what your feeling.

[Jaron Bernstein]

I did a backyard pumkin massacre (staffs make pumkins go boom! <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" /> ). Horizontal sling cuts worked fine as did rising unterhaus. The prelhau (bounce strike) didn't seem to do much.

[Ben Strickling]

When on target, the shortedge unterhaus and mittelhaus seemed to have plenty of force to me with the targets we were using. Pumpkins aren't the hardest targets to cut though, so perhaps a target that offers more resistance would be in order to better judge the effectiveness of those cuts. You make a good point though, and I think that next time we do some test cutting I'd like to do a closer comparison of short/long edge and unter/uber strikes.

[Bill Tsafa]

Thanks for your reply Gary. Regarding the bounce you mention, I only see it when using blunt objects I have experimented with on the tire-pell or when I swing with 100 % power with a heavier twohander. Most of my strikes with sharp swords seem to stop dead on the tire. But you are right that the tire is more resistant (and near indestructable) then other targets. I guess its kind of why I like it. Perhaps with more punkin testing we can compare better and try to determin better what is the issolated effect of using the pumkin rather then the tire and then what is the effect of the method of executing the strike. I know that this is a mouthfull.

Just keep it is mind as you practice on what ever you normaly parctice on and perhaps over time we will come to a concensus. I believe that this will require thousands of cuts using both the long and short side executing this horizontal strike over a long period of time to realy pin it down.

Regarding the sword being pryed out of the hand when striking with the short side in a one handed blow... I was eqauly weary of this. I only started useing the short side when I felt a mild strain from using the long side. I have not droped it yet. One thing I realized when swinging horizontaly with the short side is to start with the arm held high and let gravity help. I use the weight of the swod as an aid let it sail into my target. But you made me think. I would like suspend the tire from a rope and hit it with the short side as it swings towards the strike. That might posible do what you say. Unfortuanly I can do not see any place in my apartment to suspend the tire from. I'll find some way to test.

[GaryGrzybek]

I've done a ton of pumpkin cutting and many with short edge strikes. If your follow through is good it's very effective. Of course, these are not the most realistic targets. I think the main benefit is in helping edge alignment. Okay, so it's messy fun too <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

[GaryGrzybek]

Bill,

I don't do any pell work with my sharps. I just feel it's too much stress and wear and tear on my expensive blades. I cut with them but that's not every day. So what I'm finding is that wasters bounce against tires. The only reason I stick with tires is that they're very durable and do not perish like padded or capet covered pells.

[Mike Cartier]

I have been doing the short edge unterhau with the Dusack for a af few months now and not only is it a good solid strike its is one of the most a effective strikes in sparring. Meyer calls it the Hummer strike when you do a double upward short edge strike from an upper guard position like tag. I think its very strong and there is no danger of losing your weapon.

[Bill Tsafa]

Here is something else I have been experimenting with. Tell me what you guys think or know from your experiance.

I have found that from the squinting strike it is very convenient to slide your blade down the blade of your opponent and strike with the short edge (false edge) to the top of his head. Given that the squinting strike requires the twisting of the hips and power from the legs, it seems very easy to knock the opposing blade off line enough to get the head strike I mention. The squinting strike places the short edge in an ideal position to strike with. I do not recall reading this maneuver in any manuals.