winding

[Dylan palmer]

i feel i dont fully understand this concept can someone clear this up for me maybe with some examples? thanks:Dylan

[Matthew_Anderson]

Stand facing a training partner, your swords crossed at the middle. Now raise your hilt till you are in "Ochs" while maintaining contact with his blade. With this one motion, you have placed the strong of your sword against the weak of his and put your point in a postion to thrust him in the chest or face. It might look something like this:



Of course, he probably won't just stand there while you do this, he may raise his hilt up as well, hoping to negate your advantage. Now he is winding as well!

Here's how this might look:



Hope this helps. This is one of those basic things that's hard to describe if you've never seen and felt it, but can be demonstrated quickly in person. The hard part is learning to do it quickly and decisively at just the right moment.

[Dylan palmer]

ok this makes alot more sense its a way to turn the advantage of weak vrs strong in your favor.i hope im correct <img src="/forum/images/icons/tongue.gif" alt="" />

just a side note i was wondering how many winden there are. i was under the immpresion that there was two winding from both the lower and upper hangings is this true or i misinformed here.

[Mike Cartier]

i second what Matt had to say and i would add that in Meyer winden is also the act of turning you blade in your hands so that you follow up with a short or long edge cut after an initial cut. For example if you step with your right foot and zornhau just as the zornhau longedge hits the target or defense, step again with the left foot and using the hip for leverage, flip the blade in your hands so that you follow up with a short edge strike to the same target. Meyer likes this especially from a hanging point parry. The use of the hip is essential to making this strike have some pepper.

I find it very efficient.

[JeffGentry]

Hey Dylan

There is a discussion on this in the virtual class room it is on Doebringer 39v.

There are 8 windings from both sides(2 upper r/l and 2 lower r/l) and 3 attacks from each(cut, Thrust, slice) for a total of 24. (8*3=24)



Jeff

[Bill Tsafa]

In case you are still not clear. Think that when you get you opponets blade near your hilt you will gain leverage. So by lifting your hilt up by raising your elbows you will change the point of contact between the two blades.

To understand better just hold a pencil by the end and push it sideways against the edge of your desk. First hold it near the eraser and push the desk near the side of the point. Now, change the point of contact with the desk so that it near your fingers where you are holding the pencil. You will see that you can apply more presure when the point of contact with the desk is near your fingers.

That is what you are doing with your opponents blade. You are bringing it near your hands posibly all the way up to your crossguard. You will have leverage to push his point anywhere you want from there.

Note: in the pictures show, it seems like the person winding is making contact with his weak against his opponets strong. I think that in this picture the wind has already been executed and now a thrust is being made. The opponent seem like he has moved into a plow guard and brought his stong into play in an attempt to force the point off line.

In the second picture both people have already executed the wind and you see the result. The two weak ends (tips) of the swords are making contact. What Andrew said is correct, just the picture can be misunderstood if you do not know what phase of the wind is shown.

Take look at the picture below. I think it is probobly a sqinting strike, but the squinting stike ends up looking like a wind. The person on the left would be the one doing the winding. See how he has his opponents blade near his hilt.

[image]http://www.thearma.org/talhoffer/t18.htm[/image]

[Dylan palmer]

one last question, i read through goliath again and fianally got the upper winden. now it says:

(now you shall know That the plough on both sides comprises the lower two hangings, when you stand in it or will fence from it, then you shall deploy four windings from the left and right sides with all your drives, as was done from the upper hangings) does this mean that the lower winden goes something like this: my addversery is in vom tag with his left foot forward amd i am in pflug on my right hand side left foot forward, he then cuts horazontally against my waist so i go into pflug on my left side and catch his imcoming blow on my pflug.as i attempt to thrust at him from my winding he displacess with strenght pushing my sword over to my right side so i then take a step forward into a pflug on my right with my point turing into my left side and trusting him through the cest. is this right? or am i making a mistake.

[JeffGentry]

Hey Dylan

Winding is not something that is set in stone, It is very much dependant on whether your opponent is Hard or weak on your sword and whether it is at the strong or weak of your/his blade this will all determine how you react, ie going from a low hanging to a high hanging, it is hard to just say yes that is right or that is wrong when using text to discuss this, the best thing is to try difrent idea's using the press drill.

Jeff

[Bill Tsafa]

The quote is not exactly clear to me either. But you can definelty do a winding type of movement from the plow. Generaly I would say that any time you are in a bind and you shift the contact of the blades so that his weak is against your strong, you are doing a winding type of movement. The effect will be to give you mechanical leverage.