Hans Talhoffer, A joke of a fencing master ?

[Gene Tausk]

If you have been citing sources and this guy is still "digging his up," it is clear that he is wasting your time as he does not have anything to back up his arguments.

I would put the ball in his court and let him either come up with his sources to support his arguments or stop wasting your time. I can claim that Talhoffer was trained by visiting Barsoomians if I want, but unless I can get John Carter to get me some sources, I am just making things up. Sounds like your opponent is doing the same thing.

----------->>>>>>>>>>>>gene tausk
SFS
Study Group Leader - Houston ARMA Southside

[Brian Hunt]

All Right,

Talhoffer was trained by the greastest swordsman of Earth and Barsoom! <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

LOL

Brian Hunt
GFS

[Stacy Clifford]

Well, Barsoomians should know "the arts of Mars", shouldn't they?

[Gene Tausk]

"Well, Barsoomians should know "the arts of Mars", shouldn't they? "

Oh, man. Bad, bad, bad.

You are gonna pay for that one my friend....

<img src="/forum/images/icons/cool.gif" alt="" />


---------------&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;gene tausk
SFS
Study Group Leader - Houston ARMA Southside

[Joachim Nilsson]

I agree with what's been said above by other posters. It seems to me he has absolutely nothing solid at all to back up his statements with and that he'd keep arguing no matter what. Major troll alert. Either that or he's really conceeded.

[Derek Wassom]

I'm guessing both, Joachim.

[Joachim Nilsson]

Yeah, I am too.

[Jeremiah Guffey]

Im now curious about the forum this is on. Is it a sword related forum? I cant imagine even some of the more un-informed forums allowing this kind of misinformation to go on for too long without multiple people correcting it. I know you may not want a bunch of us suddenly jumping on but perhaps some...gentle information given directly there may help? Just a thought.

It's actually a game forum. (I know I know, it's just a game <img src="/forum/images/icons/tongue.gif" alt="" /> )
http://forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=1362&amp;page=6&amp;pp=20

The conversation just turned into historical things and then went into that direction when I started talking about Hans as an example.

I didn't really see him as a troll at all, just rather a disagreement and such. I myself have had things I believed I knew the truth about and could be a bit stubborn about admitting I was wrong or such.

[JeffGentry]

Hey Jeremiah

We see this type of thing alot some people who have been doing the gaming, reenacting, SCA, and such for years have a substantial amount of time invested and this length of time often brings a certain amount of prestige, and IMO when they are shown to be wrong they fear losing there prestige so they will argue a point that is wrong in order to seem as if they have knowledge that they do not.

One of our senior Free scholars actualy wrote an RPG that is in publication in order to have a more realistic game i am not a gamer, I have seen his book and it seems like it would be a very realistic game as far as weapons, and armour and there capability and even the way the damage is setup it is designed to be very quick, check out the riddle of steel, i do not know the web address.


Jeff

[James Sterrett]

That's Jake Norwood's _The Riddle of Steel_ (though he sold the company after going into the Army).

Website: http://www.theriddleofsteel.net/

In addition to having a great combat simulation, it also sports an excellent innovation in using the system to make character's motivations critical to the game.

[s_taillebois]

Strange stuff. I'd wonder if the person informing M. Guffey, might be someone who obtained a bastard or long sword, and felt compelled to file out the ricasso...or not add one if it didn't already have such...? That's about the only remotely courteous rationale I can derive for some of the concepts that were told to M. Guffey.
As far as theater, oh well. Many of the general goings on in an Renn (especially the Elizabethians) theater, would be considered felony's today. So if Talhoffer did take a break from his duties for the prince, and was seen in a theater...so what? It wasn't unknown for theaters of the era to break up into brawls, and even occasionally burn down as a result of it all. Not exactly the genteel places modern theaters have become.
And anyway Talhoffer, and others like him, were writing manuals for a very violent society. So if their stuff wasn't well regarded, extant copies wouldn't have survived. In that era, excepting the reciprocal religious book burnings, useful books were generally highly valued....

[Joachim Nilsson]

I'm curious to know exactly how they've been training Talhoffer's techniques to come to the conclusion that it's stage fighting. ARMA Gimo and ARMA Östersund have done exstensive training based on Talhoffer's fechtbücher and to us it's really clear that his techniques are anything but stage fighting.

[JeffGentry]

Hey Joachim

I haven't trained extensively in Talhoffer, I have used a number of his techniques in sparring and alot of them are found in other manuels and they do work, i wonder if maybe they are training half speed or slower, i'm sure you have seen the diffrence in results between half speed and full speed when doing most of these techniques, they tend to work a hundred times better at full speed.


Jeff

[Joachim Nilsson]

Jeff wrote:

haven't trained extensively in Talhoffer, I have used a number of his techniques in sparring and alot of them are found in other manuels and they do work, i wonder if maybe they are training half speed or slower, i'm sure you have seen the diffrence in results between half speed and full speed when doing most of these techniques, they tend to work a hundred times better at full speed.

We wouldn't be working with this presentation of ours if we thought that the techniques didn't work. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

Going soft at half speed or more explosively at full speed makes all the difference with these techniques, but I wonder still. I particularly dislike certain comments made over at the other forum...

[Brian Hunt]

I wouldn't worry too much about the comments made on a game forum. I cannot count the number of gamers I have met who think they are swordsman because they have read alot about swords and bashed around some with badly constructed boffer swords.Most of them were a little delusional and had little skill. Can't say for sure about this guy, but it has been my personal esperience that a lot of gamers, not all, will frequently make an erronious conclusion about something and then defend it to the death based upon the game and not real life.

Cheers

Brian Hunt
GFS