Howdy folks.......armour questions

[Cory Watkins]

Howdy From aggieland folks

Just ran across this site, and ive shot off an email to Dr. Green(who is a proffesor here at A&amp;M <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />)and hope to be getting started with WMA's soon(already practice some kumdo(kendo)).

now the question about armor. Ive been interested in armour period for a very long time and want to uild a harness. I particularl like the 16th century peascod style breast plates in armour, but im in a bit of confusion. What is the difference between what is typical described as "jousting" armour and the armor used in typical ground combat from that period? is it mainly in the legs and shoulder ares or in style completely?

Ive been looking at illusion armouring and at albion's peascod style plate(16th century) and pauldrons(i like the design of albions shoulders ....but kind find a historical reference for them.) ive looked over alot of the photos at arador, but they dont generaly talk about usage.......If yall have a resource for me to look at, just point me to it, as im shure this is an often asked question


Thanks and Gig'em

[Brian Hunt]

Hi Cory,

before you tackle a 16th century suit you need to refine your basic armouring skills.

I would reccomend starting off with a basic spangenhelm, this will help you learn to roll, dish, planish, rivet and polish armour. From there move up to a basic 14th century suit. Here you can further your education with articulated joints, both leather and riveted articulation, breastplates, single piece, or welded helmets as opposed to riveted and mail. Once you have these basic skills you will then be ready to tackle more complex armour from the 15th and 16th centuries where you will learn to raise, flute, emboss, pierce, and maybe even etch and engrave.

good luck.

Brian Hunt.

P.S. Brian Price's book on how to make armour contains a great deal of good info on 14th century armour.

[Cory Watkins]

Im sorry I worded that badly.

By "build" i was inferring putting together from pre-built pieces. I couldnt think about building anything besides butted mail in my apartment....just no room for plate.

I was interested in buying from somewere like albion or illusion.


sorry bought that <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

[Matt Bryant]

I would go to this guy:
http://www.thadenarmory.com/

He does things the right way. Check out the huge gif on his front page about raising a helm for instance... Its nice work.

[Brian Hunt]

Ahhhh,

my bad, by build you meant assemble. <img src="/forum/images/icons/blush.gif" alt="" />

I agree that Thaden does some amazing work, just check out this thread.

http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=43459

This guy actually does compression articulation

http://www.carmelemanuel.com/

Also check out Rober Macpherson

http://www.lightlink.com/armory/armory.html

As for Illusion, I have held a lot of their stuff, and they do a pretty good job for the price. Can't say alot about Valentine, but alot of people like their armour.

hope this actually helps.

Brian Hunt
GFS

[Cory Watkins]

OK my last post didnt go through.

So what Harness would be best for combat training?

I had considered the 16th century sets, a gothic set, or a 15th century two-piece breast plate style(albion actualy has a very nice plackard breast plate combo.....). ARe any/all/one of them suitable?

What the primary difference between a jousting harness and a footknights(or i guess even actual combat) harness?

The main reason i was leaning to somewere like illusion was price.....im afraid this is going to be done on a college student budget.

On a completely different subject, What do yall think of starfire swords for a practice blunt? i have on but its not very accurate. They do seem to be very good quality though.......

[DavidEvans]

First question should have been. What Do you want to do? Longsword? Cut &amp; Thrust sword or Rapier? That will assist your enquiry.

By Jousting or Foot armour. The question does hint at the answer. Jousting armour is, usually, the additional heavy plates added to normal armour to provide extra protection for a sport. 16th Century armour, in an English context, is mostly Greenwich made armour with one known surviving set of a complete garniture. That is to say the complete set plus all the pieces to convert from Jousting to Horse combat to Foot Combat, both in Jousting and in real combat. Foot armour shrinks during the 16th century to protect thighs, body, arms, hands and head. Try http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Amour_2.htm for a picture, or two, of armour.

Hope this helps a little

[DavidEvans]

Sorry...Should have reread your post. If you're on a tight budget then I'd suggest for Cut &amp; Thrust sword or Rapier then you look at darkwoord armoury for swords. For armour then I'd go for late 16th Century and build up with peascod back and breast with fittings for shoulder &amp; arm pieces and tassets. Peascod refers to a fashionable shape in the late 16th Century for big bellys! You can also look at a padded arming doublet with mail for the shoulders and arms as part of the under armour. Look at the picture of Sir Richard Bingham in the National Portrait Gallery or http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Costumes.htm

[Adam Bodorics]

Sorry, but peascod is for rather slim people... keep in mind that the faulds begin at about the end of the ribs. Even maximilian armour is rather small. The good glancing surface on the CHEST makes it look beer-bellied. <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" /> The later black and white armour, which is peascod as well, is bigger, just as the "boiler" harnesses of H VIII.
I would recommend a rich landsknecht "persona"... this means nice munitions grade maximilian armour, munions, faulds and tassels, demigauntlets, maybe cuisses and greaves and a skull hat, or a burgonet. This kit is suitable for almost everything, but especially for: pike, halberd, partisan, katzbalger and dopplehander.
Thaden and MacPherson are armour gods, wich rules them out for a tight budget. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />
I think you should seek an eastern european sucker for this job. I won't recommend myself, or my shop, there are other suckers as well. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> István Sepsik "Ironspider" makes nice stuff for nice price even by Hungarian standards... A full fantasy leg costed less than $250 at him.

[DavidEvans]

No, No No! The peascod look was a fashion statement. It was worn by everybody who wanted to be fashonable, regardless of their own size. If you look at any picture of gentry in their 30's and upwards they ALL have filled out faces, slightly plump.

Faulds at the end of the ribs? Thats called armour that doesn't fit. Look at the images of Greenwich armour. Faulds where they belong, at the base of the breastplate, which is at the base of the stomach. Look at http://www.metmuseum.org/works_of_art/viewone.asp?dep=4&amp;viewmode=0&amp;item=32%2E130%2E6 or http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Armour.htm

[Matthew_Anderson]

Nice Pics David. Is that you in the first picture? And is that a dagger in your pocket? Hope you didn't swipe it from one of the displays <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" /> BTW, I think you're spot on about the peascod emulating clothing styles of the period. I think there a lot of examples of this with armour design througout history.

[Casper Bradak]

Great pics. That is some absolutely beautiful harness.

[Stacy Clifford]

George Clifford, eh? Third Earl of Cumberland? I don't know if he's related or not, but I'll be happy to claim him if I can inherit that! After all, my middle name is Earl... <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

[DavidEvans]

Sorry for the late reply. Nope that's not me.......It does kinda make sense for clothing and armour fashions in this era to march in lockstep together. Fashion set the trend and armourers did what their clients paid for

[DavidEvans]

Try this....Hate to think How much this cost to make.....

http://www.medievalrepro.com/Premier.htm