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European historical unarmed fighting techniques & methods

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Bill Tsafa
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Re: Types of strength considered for swordplay?

Postby Bill Tsafa » Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:47 pm

I took my first fencing class and thought I might share my experiance as it relates to what we discused before. As John said it is indeed a sport of finess with no grapling. Over 3 hours I was able to make the transition from Longsword to saber pretty good I think. I won 2 bouts against other students that had taken more clases then me. I lost more then I won that is for sure. The instructure remarked on ability to spring forward and back very effectivly and we discused it further. She said it was in fact a direct result of the legtraining. I opened a discusion with her regaurding if weigth training is advisable for fencers. She said that many champion fencers do weight training but many don't. She said it was her personal opinion that weight training and particularly leg traing in favorable. She did say that she personaly does not enjoy training with weights and does not do it now, but did it when she was competing state wide.

As for how the fencing might imporve my Longsword, I think mostly in the distance and timing. The fencing saber is lighter and faster, so it is harder to follow. When I go back to the Longsword, it should be easier. I don't quite see how the footwork relates to Longsword. Longsword is more of a wider stand that moves back and forth in solid steps with the feet passing in front of one another. In saber its more shuffel front and back. The feet do not cross one anther. Perhaps someone can clear this up. Perhaps this shuffel motion is also used in Longswrd and I am not aware of it.

I found that one of the other students was interested in longsword. I spent about half an hour after class talking to him about it. I showed him the four guards of Licheneur, the 5 master strikes, winding, halfswording and a few grapling moves. We practiced some drills and aggreed to do so every week.

Not bad for a first class.

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Jaron Bernstein
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Re: Types of strength considered for swordplay?

Postby Jaron Bernstein » Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:25 am

"I also reccommend seeing the article on the site here about the Myth of Strength."

I can't seem to find this article. Can you point it out?

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James Sterrett
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Re: Types of strength considered for swordplay?

Postby James Sterrett » Sat Jan 07, 2006 5:44 pm

http://www.thearma.org/essays/strength.htm

<img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

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TimSheetz
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Re: Types of strength considered for swordplay?

Postby TimSheetz » Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:20 am

HI Bill,

I don't want to compare stats (I am 5'10" and 210 also.. wierd, huh? :-)) but I think that for me and my continued health and performance, I would be better off doing sets of 50 squats with zero weight several times than sets of 5.

I think you gain in power and you gain in endurance. I think that the power to weight ratio is important and that you may get more overall performance by looking to exercise this way than with weights as you describe.

Try a set of 100 squats with zero weight. If you aren't tired after that then you are on the way to being an animal. Do 500 and you are a bona fide scary animal. ;-)

Peace,

Tim
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Bill Tsafa
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Re: Types of strength considered for swordplay?

Postby Bill Tsafa » Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:13 pm

lol. longlive 5'10" 210 lbs

Thanks for all your suggestions.

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M Wallgren
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Re: Types of strength considered for swordplay?

Postby M Wallgren » Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:21 pm

He he, small guys;)

I´m 6'4" 220.5 lbs... (though i could lose mayby 10 of those)
Martin Wallgren,
ARMA Östersund, Sweden, Studygroup Leader.

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Shane Smith
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Re: Types of strength considered for swordplay?

Postby Shane Smith » Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:52 pm

I'm 6'3" and 215 pounds or so and having trained with Tim quite a bit,being a little guy at 5'10" isn't much of a problem for him...He's a very powerful guy(and he always carries at least two daggers in his belt at all times when fencing <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" /> )
Shane Smith~ARMA Forum Moderator
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TimSheetz
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Re: Types of strength considered for swordplay?

Postby TimSheetz » Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:00 pm

LOL, Thanks Shane,

But I have changed. I now carry one on my belt, the other at my ankle... so when you throw me in a heap I have several knife drawing options available.


Tim
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Randall Pleasant
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Re: Types of strength considered for swordplay?

Postby Randall Pleasant » Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:20 pm

Tim wrote:
But I have changed. I now carry one on my belt, the other at my ankle... so when you throw me in a heap I have several knife drawing options available
Shane

Actually Tim is just being polite enough to bring you a knife too. <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />
Ran Pleasant

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JeffGentry
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Re: Types of strength considered for swordplay?

Postby JeffGentry » Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:06 am

Hey Tim

But I have changed. I now carry one on my belt, the other at my ankle... so when you throw me in a heap I have several knife drawing options available.


Well now we all know where they are so we know what to be aware of.


Jeff
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Usque ad Finem

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TimSheetz
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Re: Types of strength considered for swordplay?

Postby TimSheetz » Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:04 am

Jeff,

That's true, but until we do the ARMA Gathering with the "Sneak Attack" option enabled, we will always be aware of each others' weapons! :-)

In the past, knowing where they were at did not help folks very much. It is the rare occaision that I have been stabbed with my own back-up weapon. The fact that this occurred is complimentary to me - it means I have trained my partner to be so nasty and viscious and flexible that he will stop at nothing to end a fight and has the mental where-withal to actually engage and use this option. So in the end I win a moral vicotory anyway! :-)

Peace,

Tim
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Craig Peters
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Re: Types of strength considered for swordplay?

Postby Craig Peters » Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:47 pm

I suppose that a persons fight style is a big factor. I try to use all the techniques of Lichenuer, but my most successfull manuver is Bind/ Wind/ Thrust , in that order. I also favor the sqint-strike/thrust. My execution requires the use of the legs to set aside my opponents blade and then to thrust. This is in line with Licheneur who advises to use the strength of the whole body not just the arms. If my opponet blocks me I will continue forward and graple to distabilize, then half-sword. Or perhaps I will push on my opponent above the elbow with my off hand and trip him over my leg while keeping my crossguard against his blade. My aim (win or loose) is to end the encounter in less then one minute. I will not try to beat your blade or strike you with the edge. I seek to bind/thrust. In my style legs is everything.


Bill,

One thing that you might want to consider is working on a greater range and variety of strikes and techniques that you are not only comfortable with but also that you like to use. A good swordsman who knows that you're all about the bind, wind and thrust will use that knowledge against you to exploit your preference. I believe it was Musashi who said that one should not have a favourite weapon; it might be wise to extend his philosophy to say that one should not have a single, favourite technique. This also relates to strength training insofar that you seem to train specifically to be good with this technique, but if you force yourself to broaden more with your techniques, you may want to broaden your strength training approach as well.

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jeremy pace
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Re: Types of strength considered for swordplay?

Postby jeremy pace » Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:38 pm

Good advice there! He actually said, "there is no true way." Meaning about the same thing you said here. The idea is that to defeat your oponent you have to be unpredictable. The bind, wind, thrust is a great technique but work on something that looks the same and is actually completely different ie bind, wind, switch to the half sword, lock up, beat your opponent in the face unmercifully with the pommel. <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" /> Basic sword technique stuff.
Amor Vincit Omnia

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Jake_Norwood
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Re: Types of strength considered for swordplay?

Postby Jake_Norwood » Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:22 am

Replying to no one in particular...

I'm surprised we haven't discussed either the masters or their own body forms here.

I lift, I run, I do calisthenics, like most soldiers. That's my background.

Di Grassi says that it's more important to hit fast than hard, and that this is gained not by lifting heavy weights, but by moving swiftly and often. I'm pretty confident that Di Grassi could kick my ass, and I'm no slouch with a sword.

Weight training is important as a part of a physical fitness regimen, but as someone that has fought for over an hour straight (prize playing, hooah) I found that constand sparring and flouryishing with lots of pushups and running got me further than the gym did.

Am I knocking the gym? hell no. It will turn our soft, civilian bodies into something harder, something that we don't have which our ancestors' lives of manual labor gave them but we lack due to lifestyle.

Will it make you a better fighter, though? No. It will prepare you better to become one, I suppose.

Move swiftly, move often.

Jake
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ARMA Deputy Director

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M Wallgren
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Re: Types of strength considered for swordplay?

Postby M Wallgren » Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:33 am

Yes!

Like Mr Bas Rutten says: It is the speed of the blow that give it a greater impact.
Martin Wallgren,

ARMA Östersund, Sweden, Studygroup Leader.


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