The "Unicorn Guard"

[Guest]

I'm thrilled somebody FINALLY translated Fiore! I'm gonna study that manual exclusively for a full year or more. But I've always drawn a blank over this "Unicorn Guard." It perplexes me, and it's advantages, and use, if any, elude me. What the heck was it used for! Any insights?

Thanks in advance,

-B.

[MurrayMoore]

It could be a transition from a right side Ochs to a left side finestra guard, keeping the tip on target as you move from one to the other.

[Guest]

Hi Brandon,

Can you tell me the exact image you are looking at and from which version of Fiore Di Battaglia? I think I know what gaurd you are referring to but I'd like to be sure before I comment on it.

[GaryGrzybek]

I'll give it a try...

This one has always puzzled me too <img src="/forum/images/icons/tongue.gif" alt="" />

http://www.varmouries.com/wildrose/fiore/156.jpg

[Matt Easton]

"It could be a transition from a right side Ochs to a left side finestra guard"

Hehe - that would be from Posta di Fenestra Destraza to Posta di Fenestra la Sinistra... Where did a German master with Ochs come into this? <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

And if it were just a transition, show us another Posta which is just a transition. <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

And it is not Unicorn - that would mean one horn, whereas this is in fact Posta di Bichorno, meaning 'Two Horned'...

It is an 'instabile' guard and Getty and Morgan say that it stays in the centre line and does what the other 'instabile' guards do. The rear (left) hand is reversed.

Matt

[steve hick]

The rear hand is reversed in Getty, maybe so in Morgan, and not in P-D (Novati). As we consider Getty to more orthodox...

Steve

[Matt Easton]

Sorry Steve, but the rear hand is actually reversed in all the versions - Pisani-Dossi is perhaps the clearest of them all on this!

Matt

[Randall Pleasant]

Matt

What is the main purpose of Posta di Bichorno? It looks like one could make a very mean high thrust.

[Matt Easton]

Aghh! SORRY STEVE! I just went and checked and you are exactly right... The hand is not reversed in Pisani-Dossi.. I am going to go [censored] my hat now <img src="/forum/images/icons/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Randall, I do not understand what this posta is for, but I don't agree it is only a transitional position, as none of the other posta are only that.

Here is the translation from Getty:

"Posta di Bichorno, Instabile
This is Posta di Bichorno (Double Horned), which stays ---------------- because it always stays with the point in the middle of the path. And it can do what Posta Longa can do. And I say the same thing for Posta di Fenestre and Posta Frontale."

(These are the other Instabile guards).

Given that Fiore says it does what Longa can do, here is the translation to Posta Longa from Getty:

"Posta Longa, Instabile
This is Posta Longa, full of deception. It goes, feeling out the guards; if it can cheat ----- the fellow. If it can injure with the point, then it knows well how to do it. It dodges ------ blows, and it can even do blows. I can use deception more than the other guards."


Matt

[Randall Pleasant]

Matt

Deception makes sense. I often use the long point as a way to get "in someone's face". Keeps a little fog in their view. <img src="/forum/images/icons/tongue.gif" alt="" />

[TimSheetz]

I like the long point to force a reaction. Menace with it and the opponent may try to knock it aside ... go with the direction of the beating action and you can very quickly bring the sword around for a countercut as you pass forward.

On the receiving end.. I like it when someone uses the long point on me (so far) cause they are already fully extended and can't really stab me without stepping... giving me more reaction time. If they aren't paying attention you can slap their blade offline and close.

Ran, MAtt, does it sound like I'm talking about the same technique you are?

BEst,

Tim

[Randall Pleasant]

Tim

Yes, we are on the same page. I too like to use Posta Longa to "get in someone's face" to get them to react. One good thing about Posta di Bichorno is that the arms are not extended.

Matt

I take that one should not stay in Posta di Bichorno, rather it is a guard in which one moves into in order to perform a very quickly attack technique. Like Posta Longa, Posta di Bichorno does not appear to offer much protection. Do enlighten me if I'm off.

[steve hick]

Poster: Matt Easton in Subject: Re: The "Unicorn Guard" wrote:

Aghh! SORRY STEVE! I just went and checked and you are exactly right... The hand is not reversed in Pisani-Dossi.. I am going to go
[censored] my hat now
Being pedantic I know, but the important thing is that even with what might be the most coherent of systems (dei Liberi and the psuedo-dei Liberi), there is room for interpretations.

As to the Posta di Bichorno, note it feels out, and can evade being found, injuring to either side (two horns).

Steve

[Guest]

hello all,
my name is Mark and this is my first post on ARMA.
I teach with the exiles of East London, England.

'The unicorn Gaurd' of fiore longsword is a Posta from which you can wait behing. Immediatly giving the opponent something to 'get around' if you will. This posta in my experience is used best for 'exchanging points' as Fiore says. and is used just so. As a blow comes in you can take the blow offline a ruturn your own thrust or cut in return. Of course all real Fiore practitioners will know that Fiore [censored] to thrust whenever the opportunity arrises, and you would thrust from this posta rather much like a unicon (although mythical) would attack its foes and that is in a straight line.

didant you learn anything Matt?

Best Regards
MDBerryman

[Guest]

Dear Sirs, with your indulgence,

I am not a regular forumite, but I think I can offer some insight into the mystery of Bicornio.

Brendan Heslop has posed an interesting question, but the answer appears to be quite straightforward if you look at it in context with the basic foundations of Fiore and his longsword system.

Posta di Bicornio allows very quick transitions from the centre-line to an attack from either Posta di Fenestra Destraza or Posta di Fenestra la Sinistra.

As Fiore states, there are two horns from this attack, which can come from either of the Fenestra, and they are most effectively thrusts, hence the horn metaphor.

The reversal of the left hand is a most efficient starting point for the quick rotation of the sword when transitioning from the posta to the attack. It also allows the arms to be chambered close to the chest for a strong forward motion.

Furthermore it allows for fluid movement between those postae which sit on the low line, for example.

It is perhaps worth a little speculation that Fiore, akin to his use of the Bestiary to symbolise the essential natures of the art, may likely be alluding to the actions of the bull for Bicornio. Other than a ram or rhino, I cannot picture another common two horned member of the animal kingdom other than that found in the bovine family <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

Anyone having experienced a charging bull will know that it maintains a centre line in the moments right up to the explosive attack, when it wounds from either horn by turning its head.

All in all, it is a very natural way of feinting your opponent.

The instabile nature of the posta is clearly that - unstable. You can come in from either direction, or transition to an entirely different posta quite quickly. It is amazingly versatile, despite its outwardly cumbersome appearance. Like Posta di Donna, for example, it is deceptively effective.

In the interim, Bicornio maintains the threat in the high line, to the face of the adversary, without over-extension of the blade.

IMHO, Bicornio is simply another variable Fiore throws into the mix, with which to gain the advantage of surprise in your fight.

I hope this makes sense.

Honourably,

Bob Brooks
British Federation for Historical Swordplay

http://www.bfhs.org