Combat Ethics

[Bill Welch]

David wrote"A lot of the sheeple just can't handle the idea that somebody could make multiple kills, and then walk around among them going about without guilt and unaffected in their normal life. "

Until they get caught, then they miraculaously find religion, or play on the ethical side of people and try to get away with the "oh poor me, I am so sorry" <img src="/forum/images/icons/mad.gif" alt="" />

[Francisco Uribe]

hitting groin... what it has to do with ethics?

A lot... depending on the historical and social context that we looked upon. Evidently that sort of action was considered perfectly normal among knights, even highly adviceable if we look into Master Fiore's work.
Nonetheless much less "aggressive" actions such take downs or punching, were not considered gentlemanly-like by the aristocratic descendant of these same knights, a few centuries later.

So to answer you question.... is hitting in the groin ethical combat behavior? I will depend on the reigning ethical framework.

[Francisco Uribe]

Ethics are for what you do before the fight and after the fight. During the fight there is only one thing you shouldn't do... lose.

Yes... but that is only one point of view. There are historical examples on how a gentleman should conform during a fight. Not everything was considered to be acceptable.
Thus a different combat ethics.

[david welch]

Yes... but that is only one point of view. There are historical examples on how a gentleman should conform during a fight. Not everything was considered to be acceptable.
Thus a different combat ethics.

A duel is not a fight. A duel is a social construct to regulate personal differences, and to keep them from spilling over to other people in much the same way a court of law is. As a artificial social device, of course it has rules and behaviors you are expected to follow, especially when you consider one was pre-arranged, witnessed, and among social equals.

Take your "gentleman" and attack him at night in an alley and see what "rules" he uses to fight back with.

David Welch
ARMA East Tennessee

[david welch]

LOL at Bill...

I was really talking about soldiers and police making a good kill, but yeah, there are a bunch of dirtbags out there that would cut your head off for the two dollars in your pocket. And then they would sleep like a baby tonight.

[Francisco Uribe]

A duel is not a fight.

Then there is really nothing else that I can tell you. Evidently my definition of fighting is much less restricted than yours.

People used to die in duels you know?
There is much more to duels than just first blood fights in the 19th century. Talhoffer show us two knights which are presented with their coffins prior combat.
I bet that there were judicial figths to the death, and some others were this outcome was avoided. Wouldn't that be a a reflection of a fighting ethics?
Something that you can or can not do because is or not proper?

But your argument does not detract from the fact that there were ethic codes. There might have been different in different regions and different times. But there were codes.

I respect your opinion that you like some fighting ethics over others.The fact that there were ethic codes for fighting, still remains.
It does not matter if one agrees with them or not.

Francisco

[david welch]

I was not saying that there were never ceremonial fights to the death where people involved agreed to fight by a given set of rules. That is a dual. But it has nothing to do with some sort of philosophical combat ethics.

Again, if I attacked one of your knights in a dark alley, do you think he is going to protect himself by fighting within some arbitrary rule set?

People used to die in duels you know?

Yes they do. They also are put to death in capital court trials and die in car accidents, but that doesn't make those "fights" either.

I personally believe people are confusing having the discipline to obey the rules set before you in ritual combat, with combat ethics that have to be obeyed during a fight. However, If I have a fight to the death in the future, I hope they have these "combat ethics". <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />

David Welch
ARMA East Tennessee

[Martin_Wilkinson]

Duels, are/were fights, similar to how modern day sports like MMA competitions (UFC etc) and Boxing are fights, they are regulated like duels were, but that doesn't stop them being fights. The rules imposed on a fight simply alter the options one has, i'm not sure if cutting down the number of attacking options one has affects their ethics...

Martin.

[david welch]

Duels, are/were fights, similar to how modern day sports like MMA competitions (UFC etc) and Boxing are fights,

It's not in a fight until you want to quit, and can't. Until then, you are just in a contest or playing.

[Martin_Wilkinson]

You can quit a battle, or street fight, all you need to do is run away. And it was difficult to quit during a duel.

Martin.

[david welch]

You can quit a battle, or street fight, all you need to do is run away. And it was difficult to quit during a duel.

You can't quit in battle or you will be... or at least you should be, shot.

If you can safely quit in a street fight, why are you in one... unless you are the thug that has attacked somebody to rob them, in which case you have set it up as an ambush, and to be as little like a fight as possible. Unless you want to call an assassination a fight also? Just curious... what is the thugs combat ethics?

A duel is ritualized combat.

[Martin_Wilkinson]

What would they shoot you with in medieval times?

Oh, and i was just saying there are ways of quitting every thing. It may be difficult, but that doesn't make it impossible. By street fight i meant a fight that has no rules and takes place anywhere, you can escape them by turning around and sprinting away.


"It's not in a fight until you want to quit, and can't."

So if you're winning a fight and don't want to quit it's not a fight?

Martin.

[Filip Pobran]

You can quit a battle, or street fight, all you need to do is run away.

and be very fast

[Martin_Wilkinson]

i'm not saying it's easy, just pointing out that it's possible to quit in all situations.

Martin.

[Filip Pobran]

well, yes you can allways quit. but it ends with limbs cut off (or head) <img src="/forum/images/icons/smirk.gif" alt="" />