Foils?

[JeffreyHendricks]

are modern foils acceptable for prctice ....are they any bit historicaly accurate?


thanks
jhj

[Jeremy Martin]

Well, in the way that they're straight pointy objects that you try to 'stick' into your opponent, sure. In pretty much every other way, no.

Way, way too light. Uses only the very tip(which is important if you're wanting to learn longsword).

[Allen Johnson]

For the most part, no? The only weapon foil comes close to resembling is the smallsword. But most even agree that an epee blade is a little closer to a smallsword. The biggest problem is that they are way too light and flexible. They are fun to play with occasionally just for way of comparison. If you are wanting to get into rapier play, none of the modern sport tools are adequate. There are a number of blunt rapiers available that would be much closer. There is a bit of a dilema in that very few of the rapiers available to us have as stiff a blade as was historically done but its certainly better than a foil.

[JeffreyHendricks]

where would you find a blunt rapier?

[Allen Johnson]

many places-
I'd recomend Darkwood Armories as the best bang for the buck and with great prices. There is a wide range of types of rapiers and cut & thrust swords there. He also will do custom work, but that, of course, is more expensive. His blades are a bit stiffer than most.
http://www.darkwoodarmory.com/

By the Sword.com has some of the CASI Practical rapiers at a decent price if you are looking for something cheaper than Darkwood. Remember to look for the "Practical" only because the others are sharps.
http://www.by-the-sword.com/acatalog/CAS_Rapiers.html

another company that I havent tried yet but have heard some interesting things about is Alchem. Their swords are fairly cheap but pretty ugly. However I hear they are durable (I have been looking at their baskethilts mainly but they have rapiers as well). http://www.alcheminc.com/swept.html

Im sure others will have some ideas as well but this can be a start. Feel free to ask around if you find something you are interested in. Chances are, theres someone here who has that peice or has at least delt with that brand or company.

[Brian Hunt]

Hi Allen,

I have one of Alchems rapier blades and I cannot reccomend it.

No sir, don't like it.

Brian Hunt
GFS

[Shane Smith]

Hanwei's shorter "practice rapier" isn't too bad as it is both somewhat stiff and has a foiled tip, yet their longer models are a bit too whippy in my opinion(the short one isn't great either in regards to stiffness, but it is better than the latter).

[Allen Johnson]

Yeah, I have the shorter Hanwei practical and its not too terrible.

Brian,
What is it about the Alchem that you dont like specifically? Is your blade their rod tang or flat tang model?

[Brian Hunt]

I have a round tang blade. The point is too whippy, when you put a blunt on the end, the point will track off line while just moving between guards, the blade doesn't really like to balance correctly unless you get a really heavy pommel on it, then the weapon starts to become a little unweildy due to too much weight at the back of the hand, it isn't stiff enough, the blade is a completly flat cross section with railroad like sides. Now it does have both a lateral and a distal taper, but it just isn't worth buying. I have been thinking of purchasing one of Del tins practice rapier blades and one of Darkwood's blades and making identical hilts for them as a comparison but I need time and cash first. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

hope that helps.

Brian Hunt.
GFS

Allen, if you are going to be at the Provo event, I will bring it with me and you can form your own opinion. But after handling several historic rapiers a couple of weekends ago, my opinion on this blade became even worse than it was before that.

[Matthew_Anderson]

Check this out:

http://www.thearma.org/essays/fenctoda.htm

[John_Clements]

No.
They are simulators of Baroque smallswords, not Renaissance rapiers (nor any other swords).
They are too light, too flimsy, too short, too flexible, too breakable, and their hilts &amp; handles reflect the gripping and parrying proper for 18th century duelling weapons.

I wish I could reccommend an accurate commercial practice rapier, but I still find deficiences in virtually all on the market in one way or another. I wish I could simply say make your own wooden rapier-foyle from a simple dowel or stick (as is historical) but even there, to do so requires some familiarity with real historical rapier blades.

JC