Who are YOU training to fight?

[jeremy pace]

But the difference here is vast. Can i fight 3 well armed opponents who ambush me? Well maybe, given the right circumstances..... but could i even begin to have a hope if i didnt have some martial training? Being a martial artist isnt about knowing the correct way to do a snap kick, its creating the will/desire in oneself to engage and have the know how/confidence necessary to win. If Todd sneaks up and hits me with a bar stool well.... he better kill me with the first hit.

A normal everyday person does not have the killer mentality.... Its something you have to develop IMO. If a group charges you the most efficient way to break that assault is to counterstrike. The peasants run, the knight breaks some bones to end the threat. Its just a matter of scale. The masters all advent the masterstrikes.... using an attack to simultaneously guard yourself as you hit. Despite the way it may sound i am not a reckless fighter but this principal is fundamental to any kind of engagement.

And Szab, i have been in plenty of not-so-nice streetfights before and trust me my friend, when your ahem genitals are on the line you dont think about the law. You think about stopping that person no matter the cost.

[SzabolcsWaldmann]

It's fine with me - as long as you accept that you are responsible in whatever you do in a self-defense move. I only feel a bit anxious for people who read this forum and believe you are still talking about legal self defense, when you say things like this: "killer mentality.... Its something you have to develop" and "its creating the will/desire in oneself to engage ". This sounds like Todd, no? Why would you want to _engage_ if you are talking about self-defense? What are you defending in staying for a fight? Your pride and face, I guess.

If you are talking about the way a warrior should act like in a modern world attack, then please make that clear. For one thing I must admit, I tend to agree with you. Me too, I'd like to give an assilant stupid enough to attack me hell of a ride right into the hispital with broken bones and shattered self-esteem. The difference between your statement and mine is probably, that I still would prefer to get out of violence instead of encouraging it with staying for a fight. Even if fighting moves are involved, they all should lead to a simple thing: to get the hell out of there. Absolutelly no good comes from winning (or loosing) such a fight. Getting away alive is an option, where only your pride gets hurt.

"And Szab, i have been in plenty of not-so-nice streetfights before"

Hm. Me not. But I didn't say I'm a streetfighter. I'm simply a scholler in the Longsword <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

Szab

[Lorraine Munoa]

I'd think it might be clearer to call this "killer mentality" a Martial Mindset.
Now, if for some odd reason, I was in a bar, and Todd smacked me with a barstool, ..well as was said he'd better do some damage with that first hit because I will do everything in my power to get him unarmed and subdued. I will attempt, however, to use proportionate force in my response. If he gets physical in his assault, I am going to defend my own body and take him down. If I feel my life or the lives of those present are in danger, in most places that's justification for use of deadly force. Then, I'd think, would be the time for those handbreaking armlocks and other more dangerous tactics.
So no I'm not out to kill or attack anybody, but I will do what I have to in order to end the threat. Hopefully I have room to simply beat a strategical advance to the rear! <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

[Andrzej Rosa]

When I was training EMA I actually trained to fight multiple opponents. All
fights I had as an adult involved multiple opponents. One on one, in self
defence context, is in my opinion quite artificial. It happened only once to
me and not happened often to anyone I spoke to.

Multiple opponents who fought me were cowardly enough to be afraid to attack
alone, so they always tried to group before committing to violence. The
trick was to convince them, that the first one who strikes me goes down with
something broken, and then you could start to laugh together pretending that
all what happened before was some sort of horse play. After I learned how to
fight I never fought again, because I could pull that trick convincingly.

But back to Todd. He is obviously much better fighter than I am or ever was,
but for all that was written about him, he can still be a coward. Quite
possibly he is not, but can be, so I'll start to be afraid of Todds after
they prove they are not cowards, but not before that.

Guys I'm really afraid of are, interestingly, quite closer to our knightly
predecessors, even if they come from among peasants, but all knightly
families started that way (not even talking about Vikings), so not so far
away after all.
Those guys are naturals. No training, no obsession with weapons or survival,
but I'd be hard pressed to stand my ground if they were on the other side.
Of course, I'd try really fight the best I can, if they were on my side. I'm
talking about naturally born fighters here. The breed, who populated
Scandinavian sagas, and they are still around.

I'll just give one example of a guy who with no regular strength training
could carry two 50kg bags of corn 4 km. Who could carry 220 kg bags of corn
for quite a distance with no apparent effort (my grandpa seen this, I never
caught him lying) and who, when local fight between groups of youths became
too noisy, simply finished it singlehandedly. Guys who fled from him were
experienced bruisers, but they fled all the same.

Todds can be the same caliber, but most are not. Obsession can not replace
talent.

Best regards.

[jeremy pace]

Well, i am torn you see. I try not to ever let pride get in the way of good judgement, but i believe in making examples.... its like the school yard mentality. Bully picks on you... bully fights you... you stomp bully in the ground.... other bullys learn you are not such an easy target and leave you alone. I dont advocate violence when its not necessary, but the real question is when is it necessary? I think the only time is when the other guy starts it first. Now im not saying that if someone tries to hit me i disembowel them and rape their wives.... i am saying you meet that force with force of your own and this is what the martial arts teaches. A true warrior knows the threat he faces and the degree at which he must meet it. I was attacked once by 3 17-20 yr old kids once as i was going home. They had a softball bat and a crowbar. I know enough about dealing with weapons (because of my longsword training thank you) to assess the situation quickly. I gauged the distance between me and each individually, i moved so that 2 were behind the first so they couldnt all get a shot at me, i took initiative away from them by engaging first (they were still talking about how i shouldnt walk alone at night blah blah blah), i was aware that i didnt have a weapon and 2 of them did so i used my sense of fighting distance to close and elbow the lead one in the nose and strip him of the bat he was carrying (thereby giving myself the advantage) before he could take a swing. The two behind him were looking at me like i was crazy (which maybe i was at the time <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" /> ) and had not had a chance to react. I clocked one in the face with the bat and he started screaming as he went down and the third took a half hearted swing at me that i halfsworded and used leverage to get a leg behind him to knock him down. You cant tell me i could have done any of this without martial training. Now.... if they had been as tough as they thought they were and maybe trained like i had been i dont think i would have had a chance. But, what won the fight (if you can call it winning)? I relied on the thought that they were young and probably were expecting easy meat. I have built and honed these skills directly through having to outsmart opponents in sparring with both swords and fists. It worked for me. Hopefully i wont ever have a scary situation like this again but believe me when i say i wasnt thinking about the law. I was worried about saving my own skin.

[Shane Smith]

I'm training to out-fight anybody that shows up to cross blades. <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

[David_Knight]

My father was slaughtered by a six-fingered man. He was a great sword-maker, my father. When the six fingered man appeared and requested a special sword, my father took the job. He slaved a year before he was done.

Six-fingered man returned and demanded it ... but at one-tenth his promised price. My father refused. Without a word, the six-fingered man slashed him through the heart. I loved my father, so naturally I challenged this man to a duel. I failed ... six-fingered man leave me alive, but he gave me this [indicating a scar down his cheek] and this [indicating a matching scar].

I was eleven years old. When I was strong enough, I dedicated my life to the study of fencing; so the next time we meet I will not fail. I will go up to the six-fingered man and say: "Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die." <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />

[jeremy pace]

Hopefully I can show up and make that happen. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" /> I liked your 5 questions answered section of the article Shane. Just a warning though i have fought a giant before!

[Jaron Bernstein]

Amen,

You may win or lose the fight with this "Todd" fellow. Your troubles only begin there. Then comes the cops and eventually the lawyers. How much jail time did you want? How much $ in punitive damages?

Best to avoid the fight in the first place.

[Mike Cartier]

pride or right and wrong is irrelvent, the purpose of entering into a fight is to win. Whtehr or not you think its right or wrong to fight is irrelevent. You are either in a fight or not, its not my obligation to walk away if i am under attack. In my house there is no retreat from any sort of threat as i am defending my family. On the street lack of will to fight is seen as a gross weakness in the same way that a dog can smell your fear. It can as easily increase the agression or cause the attack.

Thats why half of self defense is commkon sernse and awareness.

only ever been attacked by multiple opponents once in all my travels and that was cos i was stupid enough to stick around for the fight. Was a good less though <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Lorraine Munoa]

Another interesting tack we could take this question toward is this: By whom and how would I be likely to be attacked?

In WMA, I have a few things I can base that on. I am a woman, I'm on the tall end of average, and I don't look intimidating. So the guys with swords attacking me and mine may think I am an easy target because I seem non-threatening, or they may back off because they've seen women with swords fight before. <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" /> I would therefore count on the people I fight being mostly male, and mostly bigger than me. I'd be training to fight these people. Big Men, who probably have experience with their arms and armor, and know how to fight. Rioting peasants or whatever I could then take out, no problem.

Take this approach in real life, today in the context of self defense.
I don't have hard facts but I'd assume, correct me please, that most assaults on women are made by men. I am not a big person, and again, I am not exactly scary looking. <img src="/forum/images/icons/laugh.gif" alt="" /> So the people I'd train to be able to fend off would again probably be Big Men. Anyone else attacked me, I would also be able to deal with them.

[Mike_McGurk]

The only person I am and ever have been training to defeat is myself. In my opinion, the only goal which actually allows you to reach a higher level of skill (something I am not even close to achieving) is that of self-improvement and not that of victory, otherwise your ego gets in the way and when you lose, true learning ( that which comes from defeat and making mistakes) becomes impossible and is often replaced by excuses.

[Shane Smith]

Hopefully I can show up and make that happen. I liked your 5 questions answered section of the article Shane. Just a warning though i have fought a giant before!

My secret is out! I shall re-double my efforts <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />

I do look forward to crossing swords with you in all honesty <img src="/forum/images/icons/cool.gif" alt="" />

[Jeremy Martin]

I'm training to fight Waldo. Even though I know this is unrealistic because I'll never find the bastard.


I train assuming that the person I would be fighting will always be bigger, stronger, faster, and better than me. Which not only makes me train harder, but is sort of realistic as I hardly ever have slow tiny people try to fight me. Though it's funny when it happens.

[Derek Gulas]

I don't know about you guys, but I think I'm training to fight my worst nightmare: a scrappy wirey guy with lightening reflexes, and a mean temperment. It doesn't matter how strong they are if they can't it you. And as for size, well I personally I like to think of them as larger targets. But scrappy wirey guys... frightening