Protective equipment for blunt steel sparring

[Dmitriy Sobolev]

Greetings.

I have watched some fighting movies from your site. Would you answer some questions about protective equipment you use when fighting with blunt, but non-flexible steel weapons?

First, are fencing masks used in fights the standart sport fencing masks? Does it offer sufficient protection against head cuts by blunt steel sword (not a rapier, but a sword) – especially against contusion? Do you use any additional padding inside mask?

Second, do you wear any protection equipment under your red shorts? Thrusts with non-flexible blade are dangerous, so I think, some sort of hard protection is used?

And after all, do this protection allow you to fight at full speed, or sparring at full speed only possible with padded weapons or in armour?

Thank you.

[Stacy Clifford]

Everyone here determines their own level of protection to a certain extent, but the minimum standard for blunt steel sparring is a fencing mask, hand protection of some sort, and a lot of trust in your sparring partner's control. We try to simulate the speed of combat the best we can, but since we are training and not killing you have to control your attacks to try to make realistic contact without delivering a full force blow, and trust your partner to do the same. The more armor you wear, the more you can push the limits as long as you keep your head in the game.

Personally, I wear an unmodified fencing mask, forearm football pads and lacrosse gloves and have never felt at risk of serious injury anywhere past my fingers. I know my sparring partners are capable of delivering a fast and challenging strike without breaking my bones if they land a good one, and we're all pretty tolerant of bruises here. I'd like to try fighting with more armor eventually when I can get some, but in the meantime I take advantage of my speed to avoid getting hit, or hit as hard. Some others here I know wear no more than what I do, some add leg protection, and some go even further according to their own preferences, and you'll get their input here too. It comes down to how much trust you put in your ability to defend yourself vs. how much additional safety precautions you want to take in case your defense fails you.

[Randall Pleasant]

Of course, there are other areas of the body that must be armoured. <img src="/forum/images/icons/blush.gif" alt="" />
Thus, a protective cup is required equipment for any type of free play or sparring. <img src="/forum/images/icons/smirk.gif" alt="" />

[Jeffrey Hull]

Watching Winter Games, I was struck by the design of hockey-goalkeeper *helms* -- the completnes of coverage of head, face, throat. Maybe decent for blunts, probably good for wasters.

Anybody ever use hockey goalkeeper helms in swordsmanship practice?

[Matthew_Anderson]

Here's an example of some steel sparring:


I think anyone watching Stacy and I going at it that day would agree we were going at a fairly realistic level of speed and intent, with realistic techniques. You can see we're wearing 3 weapon masks, padded gloves and forearm protection and I was definately wearing a cup (I didn't check Stacy). The point is, neither of us was injured and lots of ARMA folks spar like this all the time. Is it something you should do your first day? Of course not, but between two fencers who have a sufficient level of skill and control, it's really not dangerous.

[Jeremy Martin]

That knee pad looks like a good idea. Would really suck to get your cap knocked off.

[Dmitriy Sobolev]

Thanks a lot for your anwers.

2Randall Pleasant: Yes, I was impressed by "Coup d'Groin" video too... <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />

2Jeffrey Hull: It seems to me, that face protection of these helmets have too large cells... Will stop a puck, but not a point. Fencing mask is cheaper (at least in our country), and have a tight mesh. But look, on a photo posted by Matthew Anderson there are two spectators behind the barrier, one wearing hockey helmet, and another holding it in hands.

[JeffGentry]

Hey Dmitriy

Hockey helemet's are used for waster free play or padded weapon sparring we normaly use a fencing mask in blunt free play, and often in waster free play.

Jeff

[Kevin Peterson]

Jeffrey,

A quick point about using hockey goalie masks. I have used one for over a year and a half now and can say that they do offer quite a bit of protection. However the wire cage does have openings large enough for a waster point to get through. I know this because I was on the receiving end of one. That will definitely get your attention.

Also, the design of the padding in them reasserts that these masks are designed to take a frontal impact and rightfully so. Unless they are firing pucks at the goalie from the rafters, there is no need to have extra padding there. This makes taking shots on the top of the head not as enjoyable as it could be, but it sure helps you to remember to protect that area. This can be helped by adding some extra foam yourself at a reasonable price.

Lastly, I do not know if anyone else has had this problem with theirs, but being of larger stature, I find that the chin piece juts out just enough to interfere with the Ochs position. My arm and shoulder wind up turning the mask a bit so I always have to readjust it. Hope this helps.

Kevin

[Jeff Hansen]

I use a regular hockey helmet with the face cage. Great all around protection for the head. Much better, IMO against an impact than a fencing mask. I haven't experienced any problems with interference. As for the large openings, I zip-tied some wire mesh from bwire.com over the cage of mine. Works great.

[JeffreyHendricks]

Are three weapon masks the masks approved for modern foil, epee, and sabre 'fighting'? I think that's what it is but I'm not sure.

Thanks

[Brian Hunt]

Yes,

a 3 Weapon mask is the best one to buy. It is meant to cover all three sport fencing weapons. Of course, I prefer my hand made helmets, but a 3 weapon mask is a good start.

Brian Hunt
GFS

[Stacy Clifford]

It's kind of funny that they still bother to call it that. I have never seen a "2-weapon mask" or a "1-weapon mask" for sport fencing anywhere I've ever looked.

[Brian Hunt]

There used to be foil only and saber only masks. I still have a foil only mask in my closet. I don't know if those are still around or not.

Brian Hunt
GFS