Sword & Shield

[Paul Waddington]

Apologies if this has been covered before! What interests me is early Medieval (Dark Age) sword/axe/spear and shield combat, I have read both Medieval Swordsmanship and both SPADA papers that deal with this and am wondering about the differences – in Medieval Swordsmanship the guards largely have the shield held flat across the body, while the SPADA papers strongly argue against this, from my own experience and study of Dark Age illustrations and martial poetry I tend to favour the interpretation in Medieval Swordsmanship, though I can see some of the material in the SPADA papers being effective as transitional positions and techniques. Has anyone else looked into this and would they mind sharing their experience?

[Shane Smith]

I have had extensive debates with the author of the Spada paper on the meirts of using duelling shields to extrapolate the proper use of the medieval kite or round shield. A link to one such; http://netsword.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000967.html

It is my position that the duelling shield is a specialized weapon that requires specialized tactics. It is also my position that the shield forward position protects more lines from attack at one time with only a small shift of the sheild. It is my position that the sweep from inside to outside ward leaves you slower than you should be in covering and very vulnerable to vertical cuts from a feint.

In the end, we must all speculate concerning what the true
manner of using the sword and shield in personal combat was in period. There are no manuals to clearly point the way. I do not discount the Spada article altogether, but neither do my experiences and research allow me to agree with it's conclusions. In the end though, in the absense of proof(there is evidence for either position) we're all making educated guesses in this particular realm of WMA.

[Paul Waddington]

That is pretty much my own feeling, the six foot height of the duelling shields shown in Talhoffer mean that unless they are held at quite a steep angle they completely block vision, only one of a number of important differences between them and the earlier shields. In practice I to found the movement and parrying described in SPADA horribly vulnerable to feints and much slower than what we were already doing, both SPADA wards also seemed horribly vulnerable to a hook from an axe. As I said I can quite see, certainly the outside ward being used as a transitional ward, and with correct timing and position the ‘shield knock’ can be an effective technique but It certainly isn’t any kind of ‘silver bullet’. I completely agree that it’s all about interpretation of limited evidence, I’m just very unconvinced several points of the SPADA papers.

[Jeffrey Hull]

I fully agree with what Shane advocates in relation to the assertions of said SPADA papers.

[Allen Johnson]

As an interesting little side interest of mine I have started looking at a comparison between european round sword and shield with what appears to be very similar tactics with mesoamerican shield and sword (a flat wooden club with pieces of sharp obsidian lodged in the edges). By studying the images from the various codices and the journals of people on both sides of the conflict I hope to perhaps gain a few more insights into this area.

[Jeffrey Hull]

I am aware of Aztec obsidian-edged sword-clubs, but had not considered the shields used. That seems interesting.
Maybe we are going off topic, but please let us know in future if you can gain further information about that.

[Allen Johnson]

Will do <img src="/forum/images/icons/smile.gif" alt="" />