Rising cuts

[Will Adamson]

So I know this is getting a bit picky, but this is bothering me. When I perform a rising cut ending in Ochs (with a longsword waster) I have trouble keeping the sword tip from rising above the level of my hands when done with intent.

Am I performing this cut incorretly, or is this supposed to happen? I've tried doing it with intent and stopping the tip short of rising above my hands, but it just doesn't feel very strong. All the movie files on the ARMA site look like this isn't supposed to happen.

If any of the Knoxville folks see this...I'll be up there in early August, and I'm hoping to be able to go to the Southern Regional Event this fall.

[Randall Pleasant]

Will

The best way I can describe how to cut from Tail guard into Left Ochs is to push the cut up. Other scholar may give you a better discription.

Good luck,

[Will Adamson]

That's pretty much what I was doing when the tip wouldn't come up. It just didn't seem all that strong. I'm assuming much of what I perceive as weakness in a cut is actually weakness in my ability (both technique and strength) to perform the cut. When I've tried it on my pell I can't get the proper follow through into Ochs since the pell doesn't really move and it sends the pommel into my face.

Time and practice will tell I'm sure. It took my almost two years before I could do a tornado kick without bouncing!

[david welch]

Hey Will!

You are always welcome here... we'll leave the light on for you! <img src="/forum/images/icons/laugh.gif" alt="" />

[david welch]

When I perform a rising cut ending in Ochs (with a longsword waster) I have trouble keeping the sword tip from rising above the level of my hands when done with intent.

Keep in mind... you don't cut to ochs. you cut to long point and then pull back to ochs. if you have to go straight to ochs to defend yourself, you are probably rolling into hengan, not cutting into ochs. At least, that is the way it seems to work when I do it.

[Will Adamson]

So I should do the follow through that felt like a stronger cut, then recover to ochs? That does feel like it gives more power to the schwech (I hope I'm using that term in the proper context.) I'm sure once my hands get stronger it'll feel more in control.

Thanks.

How's your wife's hand injury that was written about a couple of months ago?

[John_Clements]

Think about it.If you were to actually hit something with your blade it would not end in the same position as it does when you strike through empty air.

[david welch]

Hey Will,

I didn't think about what John said, but he got it right. A lot of stuff like that fixes itself if you are practicing on a pell. Are you using one? When I don't have a lot of people to practice with, I find my pell is almost as good.

David Welch
ARMA East Tennessee

[Jake_Norwood]

The pell is a huge, huge fix.

Another thing that will change your ending position is the edge you are striking with and the grip you are using. I'm a huge advocate of striking with the short edge when doing a an unterhau into ochs/hengen. Use a "thumb" grip and perform it as if you were doing a zwerch that starts in tail or shranckhut and rises into ochs or hengen with the point trained on the opponent's breast. You'll find that this is faster, tricker, stronger, and--best yet--it lends itself to an immediate follow-up with a thrust or a twitch-hit to the other side. It's wicked once you figure it out (but it tends to mystify folks at first).

Jake

[Will Adamson]

The unfortunate thing about my pell is that it tends be a bit bouncy with diagonal cuts. It's a steel pipe surrounded by foam noodles, wrapped in canvas and secured with duct tape. I then hang it from a tree branch when I'm ready to practice.

I think the paying more attention to how I would perform the cut against an actual person causes me to perform it better, but it still feels a bit out of control when returning to ochs. Now that I'm able to put together new (to me) material from the super secret probation area of the website, I'm starting to get some longer, better workouts. My hands and arms are getting much better at controlling this cut in particular.

Thanks Y'all!

[Will Adamson]

I'll give it a try. But if I end up with hickory splinters in my nether regions, I'm blaming you!

[david welch]

If you are worried about splinters... what are you going to do when you get your arm chopped off in battle? <img src="/forum/images/icons/shocked.gif" alt="" />

[Will Adamson]

It's just a flesh wound.

[Jeffrey Hull]

It may help to think of the dynamics of an Unterhau as punching up into the air with both your fists - while you happen to be wielding a longsword. <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

[Will Adamson]

So I think I have found my answer in Meyer. I was reading Jake Norwood's intro and found what I think is the answer in the Einhorn stance and the fighter on the right in Figure E.

Thank you Mr. Norwood and Master Meyer!