Training equipment question

[M Wallgren]

Sounds good! I goona check that out!

[M Wallgren]

Well the problems with hockey masks is that they don´t protect against trusts. Espessially as we do most of our sparring with waisters and steelblunts.

[JeffGentry]

Martin

One of the guy's in our group took a thrust from a watser in the face wearing a fencing mask and the wire mesh collapsed and he still got hit in the face and the wire mesh took off a bit of skin.

Nothing serious i was surprised had not seen that happen before the mask actualy popped back out to the original shape didn't damage the mask at all.

Jeff

[M Wallgren]

Ouch!

I´ve seen something simillar happen to one of the boys here to. He took a pommelstrike in the forhead and the mesch was pressed into his skin. Lookt nasty at first but was only a suoerficial wound.

But at least the fencingmask spreads the impact and the eyes are safe from gouging(sp?).

just my point of weiw!

Martin

[Will Adamson]

A regular birdcage with a player's helmet should work even for thrusts, except with rapiers. A cateye cage will not be as useful. Also, if you're using a goalie mask, they are designed to take impacts originating from below, and to work in conjunction with a chest protector, so the throat guard is not going to do a whole lot of good against a sword.

What kind of mask were you using?

[M Wallgren]

We use a 1600 something-pressure-messurment fencingmask, and sometimes a birdcage-hockeyhelmet. But with the waistrs the Hockeyhelmet is not to recomend. We have had a few near eye-out incidents.

Martin

[Brian Hunt]

One thing you can do with a hocky helmet is modify it. Put a heavy duty woven steel mesh screen over it and tie it down to the original cage of the helmet or do the same thing using a 18 or 16 gage perforated steel plate. These will both allow you to have a fairly good amount of vision (much like a fencing mask) and will plug up those open areas so you won't take a waster to the face. Look at http://www.mcmaster.com/ on page 365 of their catalog for perferated plate (I wouldn't use anything thinner than 18 gage and would highly reccomend 16 gage the cost difference isn't that much. I would also use very small holes 1/8 inch or smaller with a open area no greater than 33%-40%). I prefer an open/staggered pattern when working with steel perf. If you use stainless steel instead of plain steel, you won't have to worry about rust (athough a coat of black paint can solve this problem) and since stainless is stronger you could go with 18 gage. You can work this material with a sinking/dishing stump and a hammer to shape it for your mask. Here is a link to a pdf file for making masks in the SCA, there are some interesting ideas in it http://www.companyofthebronzering.org/library/technology/rapierhelmet.pdf

I don't have a good url for a decent wire mesh, but look for one that has wires that are no smaller than those on a fencing mask and you may go as high as 18 gage for the wire diameter. Once again keep your holes small 1/8" or smaller. The smaller the diameter of the wire in your mesh, the more see through it will be, but as wire thickness descends so does the strength of your mesh.

One other thing I would probably add to a hocky mask is some form of throat protection, either by shaping 16 gage steel or a 1/8" plastic (ABS, HDPE, Kydex) and attaching it with leather or nylon straps. But I like to build and modify things.

hope this info is helpful.

Brian Hunt
GFS

[Jeff Hansen]

To add to Brian's post- I used wire mesh over the cage of my hockey helmet, the supplier I used was bwire.com. I attached it with plastic zip ties (don't be stingy). Figure out what wire diameter and gap is equivalent to a fencing mask and work from there. That is, if you want better visibility you can increase the gap between wires, but you also have to increase the wire diameter to maintain strength. Splurging on the stainless helps with this since it's stronger than the mild steel. The edges also need to be rolled around the back of the mask or finished with leather or something as the raw edges of the steel mesh are jagged and will shred a padded weapon.

And Brian's right about throat protection. Add some. You can buy a plastic throat protector specifically for hockey helmets or a "curtain" of heavy leather attached to the bottom of the cage will do the trick.

I love mine. I've taken thrusts to the face with rapier, and dagger, simulators, and shots to the head with wasters and padded weapons that would have rung my bell a little bit with a 3 weapon mask, with no ill effects except the damage to my pride. <img src="/forum/images/icons/blush.gif" alt="" />

[JeremyDillon]

cool, thanks for all the help, guys. I'll definetly invest some cash in some good head protection, so I'll probobly end up buying and modyfying a hockey helmet.

[Brian Hunt]

Let me add that another way to go for throat protection is to use a gorget. It may be made of steel, ABS plastic, or Heavy hardened leather. They may be purchased from various armourers on the internet. I do not like a SCA dog collar style but prefer a historical type that rests on the shoulders and has upper plates that cover the throat. The throat plates may be riveted solid to the shoulder plates or held in place with leather strapping. Something that looks similar to this would work well.



laters.

Brian Hunt
GFS

[Will Adamson]

Something similar to a gorget from the hockey world is a clavicle protector for goalies. I don't use one when playing because I get wicked hot with anything on my neck (even though I've been hit there.) Most will have a hard plastic plate in the throat protection portion, as well as provide some protection for the upper chest and clavicle. I coach someone who swears by them. I'll ask her if she thinks it could take hits from a waster. I'm pretty sure the more historically accurate stuff may work better in the heat than something designed to be used on ice though, but then again, I wouldn't want to wear plate armor in southern France in the summer time.

[JeremyDillon]

Thanks for the pointer, Will, I'll be anxious to hear weather or not she thinks that that equipment can withstand waster hits. On another note, I assume from your signature that your expecting a baby. Congratulations!

[Dan Clayburn]

Looking to buy a couple of fencing Masks. Paul Leon is a little pricey, but I'm sure you get what you pay for. the second one I'm looking at is a Triplette. The Leon is a 1600N rated and the Triplette just states it is a 3-way. Of course the Triplette is cheaper and I can get it here in the US. Does anyone have any experience with either?

web page

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[Erich Wagner]

I use the triplet mask with no serious complaints. The only problem I have with it (and this is probably true for any 3 weapon mask) is the lack of protection for the back of the head.

[Stacy Clifford]

I've used a Triplette mask for several years now against wood and steel and it works just fine. It's pretty dented up by now, but it's all on the front because I try not to get hit on the back of the head. <img src="/forum/images/icons/grin.gif" alt="" />