Terry Brown's bare-fist techniques

[PeteWalsh]

I think I've lost the hammerfist debate so I'll take it on the chin (or top of the head!)

Here's a few more for you that I'd be interested to find any mention of in the annals. A few years ago I was lucky enough to spend a lot of time with the late Bartley Gorman, who was one of the great old gypsy bareknuckle fighters, and a lovely man.

He told me some of the favoured punches of the gypsy pugilists, and I quote:

"Middle knuckle shot betwen the lip and the nose - agony
Single middle knuckle in the eye socket - causes loss of vision
Punch to the bone behind the ear - potentially fatal
Simultaneous double punch behind the ears - a jawbreaker
Rabbit punch to the kidneys - wicked with bare fists
Right to the heart - another very dangerous strike
Left or right under the armpit - excruciatingly painful
Solar plexus punch - drains your opponent's power
Hook under the floating rib - turns his lips blue
Punch to Adam's apple - a critical blow
Bullhammer (BG's name for his full-blooded right smash to the forehead or temple) - end of story"

I don't know how many of those are deliverable in the frenzied heat of a fight but by God they frighten me.

At least one of them is backed out by the old books. Given the reference to Broughton above, I checked out Miles's Pugilistica, and it said of Broughton: "his lunge under the ear generally produced terrible consequences for his opponent."

I should imagine it did.

Also, on Broughton's Rules, as to what was and wasn't permissible in the early prize-ring, the last of his 7 rules stated: "That no person is to hit his adversary when he is down, or seize him by the ham, the breeches, or any part below the waist: a man on his knees to be reckoned down."

[Justin Lompado]

Those punches are wicked; thankfully I've never been on the receiving end of most of them. But, is it advisable do all of those (not all in one fight, but each) in the middle of a fight? I'm a grappler, so I'm not sure how the real-life striking match goes down honestly.

[Brian Hunt]

Hi all,

fun conversation. One thing to remember when you are discussing pugalism/boxing and the way it has changed is to remember how much effect that the rules have on the stance and the changes the gloves have had on it. Here is a nice article on this subject. http://www.savateaustralia.com/Savate%20Essays/Bare-Knuckles%20to%20Modern%20Boxing.htm

As for hammer fists, I find them quite effective on the inside to soften an opponent up. They generate a lot of force in a very short distance and seem to carry a lot of stunning power with them.

laters.

Brian Hunt
GFS

[Gene Tausk]

Petter also uses hammerfists in his system. IMHO, they are very effective and also have the advantage that the striker's hand is less apt to be injured because he is hitting with the "meat" of the bottom of the fist rather than the knuckles.


---------->>>>>>>>>gene tausk
SFS
Study Group Leader - Houston ARMA Southside

[Mike Cartier]

There is always some resistance to the idea of a standing hammerfist, its from our cultural association with boxing i think. I find the hammer very effective both standing and on the ground. Standing takes some getting used to, but its very good for the hands if you hit the forehead and keeps the hands forward ready to defend the takedown. mark hatmaker teaches the use of standing hammers in his MMA instructionals. Not many MMA people beleive in them because MMA is basically made up of the existing combat sports (boxing, kickboxing, wrestling/judo, BJJ) and those styles of striking do not allow hammers in the sport. Though i think the older puglism and muay thai arts had them.

I have been woprking on an interpretation of Pankration for a while now and we spar with the hammers, i also use them in my personal MMA training. Thye just add another dimension to your striking.

Here is a movie of our recent Pankration bouts at ARMA-SFL, there is some nice hammers at the end of the video
Pankration Bouts 42 mb

[Gene Tausk]

"There is always some resistance to the idea of a standing hammerfist, its from our cultural association with boxing i think"

Hmmmmm, interesting. You may be on to something. As I said, I think hammerfists are extremely effective, both standing and on the ground. They are a very effective way to cause damage to your opponent and move directly back into a defensive position.


--------------->>>>>>>>gene tausk
SFS
Study Group Leader - Houston ARMA Southside

[Randall Pleasant]

Very interesting thread.

To take the "cultural association with boxing" a step further, we normally do not think of the back of an adversay's head as a target when facing off with them. But consider how people will often lower their head so as to hide their face from stright line attack, most will continue to cover their face to prevent a knee strike. I would think that a hammerfist to the back of the head/neck in such a moment would be very effective.

[Jake_Norwood]

Krav Maga, which is probably my favorite modern self-defense striking art, makes judicious use of the hammerfist in addition to the elbows, in a variety of very effective directions with a list of very effective targets.

I recall my first sparring match against a guy in the "red man suit." Once I got his head down I just wailed on it with a right hammer fist until, even in the big red suit, he was only half-conscious.

Hammerfists are more instinctive than regular punches, and safer, but they still need to be trained.

Jake

[Derek Gulas]

Safer for who? In my Krav Maga class we were taught how to potentially kill with them. We were also taught to strike to the temple and brain stem area, which I can't imagine is healthy.

Do you mean safer for me? <img src="/forum/images/icons/wink.gif" alt="" />

[Logan Weed]

Yes, I was under the impression a strike to the brain stem/back of the kneck had a very high probability of fatality or permanent injury.

Very interesting thread, it's inspired me to try more downward strikes in sparring.

[Mike Cartier]

I htink by safe he meant safer for yourt hands. The chopper to the back of the neck is indeed banned in boxing and MMA .

[Jake_Norwood]

Safer for your hands, yes, but it's also safer than punches in sparring or play-fighting. A knuckle, even soft, is still a knuckle; the padded part of your fist can be used in mock-fighting drills with less concern for acccidental injury.

But yeah, I meant for the hands!

Jake

[Jay Vail]

i saw a guy once knocked out by a hammerfist blow to the top of the skull, where a punch would have broken the hand.

[Jeffrey Hull]

Incidentally (as some may agree or not), the palm-heel strike is another one that can go easier on one's hands while dealing out punishment to the foe. Although the palm-heel can be thrown wrongly itself and allow the thrower injury, I still think it is less problematic than a fist in that regard.

[Jay Vail]

the palm-heel strike is another one that can go easier on one's hands while dealing out punishment to the foe. Although the palm-heel can be thrown wrongly itself and allow the thrower injury, I still think it is less problematic than a fist in that regard.

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